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Author Topic: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission  (Read 7275 times)

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Offline freakazoid

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Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« on: February 17, 2007, 08:46:46 AM »
Ruud van Nistelrooy claims Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson's treatment of him 'kicked his soul' and forced the Dutch striker to leave Old Trafford and join Real Madrid last summer.

Van Nistelrooy was left as an unused substitute during United's Carling Cup final triumph over Wigan at the Millennium Stadium last season and the player insists Ferguson's decision to keep him out of the action was the moment he knew he had no future with the club.

'After an hour we were 4-0 in front and I was desperate to come on with still 30 minutes left, maybe score a goal and be able to lift the trophy,' he said.

'First Kieran Richardson was brought on, then Nemanja Vidic and Patrice Evra, who had only arrived two weeks before. I exploded and began swearing at Ferguson because I felt he had kicked my soul.

'That was the moment things died and, after that, things would never be good, they could never be the same again.'

Van Nistelrooy accepted the breakdown in relationship between manager and player was also his fault as well as Ferguson's.

'I find it rather tragic,' he told World Soccer.

'This was the man who visited me in hospital when I had my bad knee injury while I was with PSV. This was the man who wanted me at all costs. It was because our relationship was so warm that this situation was so painful.'


Cant quite figure out the man that is fergie, he has  had some serious busts up with some notable players yet he keeps rooney in check. who is this man called fergie?
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Offline dinho

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2007, 09:02:25 AM »
the man called fergie is a "my-way-or-the-highway" clown who ruin real men utd career for his own selfish way....

ruin real men career along the way except for his FAVORITES...  only de men who he like could get second chances, however if anyone else cross him it have no return...  From Van Nistelrooy, Yorke, Stam, Cole etc etc united loss real title during his reign because of that stupidity... But men like KEANE, giggs, scholes, nevilles, butt, brown etc etc does get nuff props regardless of what they do...

which is why i could never like fergie or united on de whole....
         

Offline Peong

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2007, 10:35:23 AM »
Co-sign.

And Fergie does have the gall to say, "No player is bigger than the club."

Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2007, 10:42:03 AM »
the man called fergie is a "my-way-or-the-highway" clown who ruin real men utd career for his own selfish way....

ruin real men career along the way except for his FAVORITES...  only de men who he like could get second chances, however if anyone else cross him it have no return...  From Van Nistelrooy, Yorke, Stam, Cole etc etc united loss real title during his reign because of that stupidity... But men like KEANE, giggs, scholes, nevilles, butt, brown etc etc does get nuff props regardless of what they do...

which is why i could never like fergie or united on de whole....



         :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Well said, omardinho.  Very well said.  I will even include his treatmant of Fabien Barthez with that.  There was a documentary made about him that has been circulated around England that talks about even his treatment of black players.  I havent seen it, but i was told about it.  I will grant him his successes as a manager/coach, but I don't let his mellowed appearance over the last few years fool me.  He's a imps!!  For years, he was the bullying manager in the EPL and used to clash with and try to intimidate many a manager and player........until Jose Mourinho and Porto Jam him up in the CL a few years ago.  He tried the same s**t in the media with Jose that he did with everybody else, but Jose was a step ahead of him.


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Offline EJA

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2007, 02:18:54 PM »
De man eh ruin nobody career. He is the best manager in this era to know when somebody career is going down. All the players he let go have never had the success since, both teamwise and individually.

Offline Grande

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2007, 02:32:05 PM »
Is his way or the highway

The reason why Neville, Giggs and Solkjaer last so long is because dem men is quiet, obedient fellers who doh cause any ruckus. Look how Solkjaer settle for getting corbeaux sweat most games he plays.

Stam and V. Nistelrooy were complaining too much fuh his liking I guess...despite all they did for the club. Andy Cole faded out and then we all know Yorke had his indecent exposures

that is why if C. Ronaldo want to leave, all he have to do is start whining and start playing more shyt than usual

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Offline Filho

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2007, 03:56:03 PM »
anbody wo has read the utter shit that Van Nsitelroy said in this article and blaming Fergusson is demented. r u guys just biased against Ferguson and not even bothering to read what V Nistelroj claims was the breaking point. The man turn sour and cuss out his manager because he did not come on in a final. What a self-centered bastard. And what absolute disrespect for his teammates who came on instead of him. I guess every player who did not come on has the right to the same. Every team would be selling 9 players a season. It does not matter how good you think u r,  no player deserves or should ever feel he must play ahead of another..especially since Fergie was recognizing that Saha was giving him a different look up front. Van Nisterlroj does not deserve more respect or opportunities than any other pro who puts his head down weak in weak out to work hard for the team. V Nistelroy is a useless arrogant crybaby. He acted like a twat with Van Basten as well and people suport that shit too..'start me for Holland or I cannot play for you'. clown.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 04:35:30 PM by Filho »

Offline Filho

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2007, 04:13:50 PM »
the man called fergie is a "my-way-or-the-highway" clown who ruin real men utd career for his own selfish way....

ruin real men career along the way except for his FAVORITES...  only de men who he like could get second chances, however if anyone else cross him it have no return...  From Van Nistelrooy, Yorke, Stam, Cole etc etc united loss real title during his reign because of that stupidity... But men like KEANE, giggs, scholes, nevilles, butt, brown etc etc does get nuff props regardless of what they do...

which is why i could never like fergie or united on de whole....

this is nonsense. please actually read what VN said. u think that is appropriate behavior? please. And VN was a total favorite..Fergie coulda let him rot in Holland after he mashed up his knee. If Fergie had said he eh touching Ruud cuz his knee crappo..real teams woulda look at that like poison. Fergie helped revive Ruud career. Anyway, let's look at your list..

Stam wrote a book insulting half his teammates while he was at manU. Not only was that categorically stupid, it was career suicide. He deserved to get the boot. 

Cole left beause he wanted more playing time. There was no personal falling out with Fergie...that was Soueness u'r probably thinking of. Fergie publicly begged Cole to stay and had nothing but praise for him. A manager who can't guarantee a 30 something yr old striker a starting spot is not a selfish tyrant. 

Keane was a favorite and got dismissed in shame because he publicly insulted his teammates one many occasions. The last time was too much and Fergie kicked him to the curb...What manager would not with an uncontrollable loud mouth has-been who is single-handedly trying to demoralize your young squad? c'mon..and u list him in favorites who got away with whatever

Giggs was rumored so often to be leaving cuz in the last few years he rode the bench as mch as he started and Giggs is 10x the United legend VN will ever be. But instead of being a crybaby twat, he kept working hard and this season is having the season of seasons

What have the Nevilles gotten away with to indicate favoritism...beside Gary ended up leaving cuz he wanted more playing time. Not such a favorite after all.

Same with Butt..both he and Phil Neville were part of Fergie's young generation that came through with Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Gary Neville. When they lost their starting spots did they bitch and moan about being kicked in their souls and disrespect their teammates..nope. Big pros tried tehier best..couldn't cut it and moved on. Thye may not have been happy, but they know how the game is played.

I agree with Fergie can be a hot head and I don't like what I know of how he treated Beckham and Yorke. Other than that..u not making any sense. VN just vexed that Luis Saha take his spot and found a way to manipulate his way out of hte club by intentioanlly destroying any way he could be allowed to stay. read his behavior carefully. he is an a$$
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 04:34:45 PM by Filho »

Offline Filho

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2007, 04:30:11 PM »

         :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Well said, omardinho.  Very well said.  I will even include his treatmant of Fabien Barthez with that.  There was a documentary made about him that has been circulated around England that talks about even his treatment of black players.  I havent seen it, but i was told about it.  I will grant him his successes as a manager/coach, but I don't let his mellowed appearance over the last few years fool me.  He's a imps!!  For years, he was the bullying manager in the EPL and used to clash with and try to intimidate many a manager and player........until Jose Mourinho and Porto Jam him up in the CL a few years ago.  He tried the same s**t in the media with Jose that he did with everybody else, but Jose was a step ahead of him.

 Chow you disappoint me there...Fergie treatment of black players? Is VN who was vex because a certain black player called Louis Saha took his spot. Don't get it twisted. Fergie may well be a prick  :D...but you sound like yuh talking with your emotions there. Some talking like Manu is a  slave ship. Everyone who wanted to leave could leave anytime...including Phil Neville and Butt. His treatment of players has been the same regardless of skin color. Besides look at the facts...Evra started off error-prone, but Fergie was patient with him and now Heinze (who is a ManU favorite and white) cannot get a look. After Ferdinand's 'missed' drug test and ban...his greed as he stalled for an even bigger money contract, Fergie still stood by him. Disappointments like Wes Brown and Silvestre continue to get chances even tho' they suck. Kieron Richardson continues to get chances to develop....slowly. Saha coulda get kicked to the curb long time with all his injuries and VN in the squad. In the past, he put black players like Paul Ince and McGrath on pedestals. That Ince went on to be the first ever black Captain of England Has a lot to do with Fergusson ..anyhow..I could go on. His treatment of Yorke and Becks was crappy. I ain't trying to defend his character..but I believe in having an opinion based on facts. Maybe I am wrong..I accept that, but everyone sounds like they just vex with the Yorkie thing and write off Fergie.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 04:33:12 PM by Filho »

Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2007, 06:45:38 PM »

         :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Well said, omardinho.  Very well said.  I will even include his treatmant of Fabien Barthez with that.  There was a documentary made about him that has been circulated around England that talks about even his treatment of black players.  I havent seen it, but i was told about it.  I will grant him his successes as a manager/coach, but I don't let his mellowed appearance over the last few years fool me.  He's a imps!!  For years, he was the bullying manager in the EPL and used to clash with and try to intimidate many a manager and player........until Jose Mourinho and Porto Jam him up in the CL a few years ago.  He tried the same s**t in the media with Jose that he did with everybody else, but Jose was a step ahead of him.

 Chow you disappoint me there...Fergie treatment of black players? Is VN who was vex because a certain black player called Louis Saha took his spot. Don't get it twisted. Fergie may well be a prick  :D...but you sound like yuh talking with your emotions there. Some talking like Manu is a  slave ship. Everyone who wanted to leave could leave anytime...including Phil Neville and Butt. His treatment of players has been the same regardless of skin color. Besides look at the facts...Evra started off error-prone, but Fergie was patient with him and now Heinze (who is a ManU favorite and white) cannot get a look. After Ferdinand's 'missed' drug test and ban...his greed as he stalled for an even bigger money contract, Fergie still stood by him. Disappointments like Wes Brown and Silvestre continue to get chances even tho' they suck. Kieron Richardson continues to get chances to develop....slowly. Saha coulda get kicked to the curb long time with all his injuries and VN in the squad. In the past, he put black players like Paul Ince and McGrath on pedestals. That Ince went on to be the first ever black Captain of England Has a lot to do with Fergusson ..anyhow..I could go on. His treatment of Yorke and Becks was crappy. I ain't trying to defend his character..but I believe in having an opinion based on facts. Maybe I am wrong..I accept that, but everyone sounds like they just vex with the Yorkie thing and write off Fergie.


   Read carefully everything I said, Filho. I am attacking SAF's character as a whole.  In my opinion, he IS a imps!!   I mentioned that I did not see the documentary but was told about it......leaving it up to the british crew to verify its existence or non-existence.  Alex Ferguson is very much a bully of a coach and that is exactly what I am saying.  Yorke and Beckham weren't the only players he treated like crap on their way out the club and clearly that proves to be a major flaw in his character.  Over the years there have been hundreds, if not thousands of players that have been released by their respective clubs for any of a myriad of reasons........but SAF has been involved in a disproportionate amount of controversies involving his players.  The examples you gave of his "fair treatment" to guys like Saha, etc. all seem to come in the years where his old ass is mellowing out.  I never liked the way he or his teams represented him and he can be just as hypocritical a manager as the worst of them.  His style has always been to be a bully, and his teams tended to play the same way, too.  It's no coincidence that the unskilled Roy Keane was his captain. It is no coincidence that Rooney has gone thus far in the league with his behaviour going as unchecked as it has.  Cantona showed the most arrogance while playing under Fergie (he definitely wasn't jump-kickin' no fans in the stands when he played for Leeds), and it is also no coincidence that Paul Scholes regularly commits some of the most mind boggling tacles (and quite often, gets away with them).  The team is a reflection of him, but what he has shown me, with the treatment of Yorke, Beckham, Barthez, RvN, etc, is that he would not think twice about turning (publicly) on his own players that have brought him alot of the success he has enjoyed as a manager.  There simply has to be something wrong with that picture.


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Offline Filho

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2007, 07:02:12 PM »
   Read carefully everything I said, Filho. I am attacking SAF's character as a whole.  In my opinion, he IS a imps!!   I mentioned that I did not see the documentary but was told about it......leaving it up to the british crew to verify its existence or non-existence.  Alex Ferguson is very much a bully of a coach and that is exactly what I am saying.  Yorke and Beckham weren't the only players he treated like crap on their way out the club and clearly that proves to be a major flaw in his character.  Over the years there have been hundreds, if not thousands of players that have been released by their respective clubs for any of a myriad of reasons........but SAF has been involved in a disproportionate amount of controversies involving his players.  The examples you gave of his "fair treatment" to guys like Saha, etc. all seem to come in the years where his old ass is mellowing out.  I never liked the way he or his teams represented him and he can be just as hypocritical a manager as the worst of them.  His style has always been to be a bully, and his teams tended to play the same way, too.  It's no coincidence that the unskilled Roy Keane was his captain. It is no coincidence that Rooney has gone thus far in the league with his behaviour going as unchecked as it has.  Cantona showed the most arrogance while playing under Fergie (he definitely wasn't jump-kickin' no fans in the stands when he played for Leeds), and it is also no coincidence that Paul Scholes regularly commits some of the most mind boggling tacles (and quite often, gets away with them).  The team is a reflection of him, but what he has shown me, with the treatment of Yorke, Beckham, Barthez, RvN, etc, is that he would not think twice about turning (publicly) on his own players that have brought him alot of the success he has enjoyed as a manager.  There simply has to be something wrong with that picture.

Chow..you may be right that Fergusson is ah impse..but you are wrong about him having a disproportionate number of public falling outs with players. Payers and coaches constantly fallout over stupid egotistical things. He just happens to be ManU's manager and that is one of the more high profile clubs in the world. Blaming Fergie for Cantona? Cantona was always an arrogant prick..you should read more about his career. It is well documented. Blaming Fergie for his jumpkick is bull and you know it. But here is what you don't realize...The season after his jumpkick he led ManU to the league and cup double and did not get a single suspension and I actually think he did not get a single yellow card in the process as well.....so he actually cleaned up his act under Fergie...more than under any manager. That is a fact. Scholes tackles like that cuz he is a shit tackler and most would agree he is a low profile and not very malicious player. His timing on the tackle is atrocious. He is not a nasty player. Keane was a natural born leader. At times way too agressive, but he was also captain of Ireland also and his now the manager at Sunderland. Why does everyone keep putting him in leadership positions? When his loud mouth arrogance became too much Fergie showed him  the door...and rightly so. Rooney's natural agression has nothing to do with Fergie....It is ridiculous to blame Fergie for all the 'transgressions' of his players..and for every example of poor bahvior there are more examples of players of immaculate reputation. Yes Fergie can be a right old ass...but you cannot be telling me that the Ruud fallout is nothing but Ruud's own arrogance, petulance and manipulation. He can't stand the idea of being on the bench..not for ManU not for Holalnd. Watch him be a right old prick if he loses his place at Real. Come on..I agree Fergie treated some players poorly...but Ruud? I'm at a loss with that one..peace breds

Offline Cantona007

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2007, 07:21:55 PM »
doh hurt them Filho...
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Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2007, 07:40:04 PM »
   Read carefully everything I said, Filho. I am attacking SAF's character as a whole.  In my opinion, he IS a imps!!   I mentioned that I did not see the documentary but was told about it......leaving it up to the british crew to verify its existence or non-existence.  Alex Ferguson is very much a bully of a coach and that is exactly what I am saying.  Yorke and Beckham weren't the only players he treated like crap on their way out the club and clearly that proves to be a major flaw in his character.  Over the years there have been hundreds, if not thousands of players that have been released by their respective clubs for any of a myriad of reasons........but SAF has been involved in a disproportionate amount of controversies involving his players.  The examples you gave of his "fair treatment" to guys like Saha, etc. all seem to come in the years where his old ass is mellowing out.  I never liked the way he or his teams represented him and he can be just as hypocritical a manager as the worst of them.  His style has always been to be a bully, and his teams tended to play the same way, too.  It's no coincidence that the unskilled Roy Keane was his captain. It is no coincidence that Rooney has gone thus far in the league with his behaviour going as unchecked as it has.  Cantona showed the most arrogance while playing under Fergie (he definitely wasn't jump-kickin' no fans in the stands when he played for Leeds), and it is also no coincidence that Paul Scholes regularly commits some of the most mind boggling tacles (and quite often, gets away with them).  The team is a reflection of him, but what he has shown me, with the treatment of Yorke, Beckham, Barthez, RvN, etc, is that he would not think twice about turning (publicly) on his own players that have brought him alot of the success he has enjoyed as a manager.  There simply has to be something wrong with that picture.

Chow..you may be right that Fergusson is ah impse..but you are wrong about him having a disproportionate number of public falling outs with players. Payers and coaches constantly fallout over stupid egotistical things. He just happens to be ManU's manager and that is one of the more high profile clubs in the world. Blaming Fergie for Cantona? Cantona was always an arrogant prick..you should read more about his career. It is well documented. Blaming Fergie for his jumpkick is bull and you know it. But here is what you don't realize...The season after his jumpkick he led ManU to the league and cup double and did not get a single suspension and I actually think he did not get a single yellow card in the process as well.....so he actually cleaned up his act under Fergie...more than under any manager. That is a fact. Scholes tackles like that cuz he is a shit tackler and most would agree he is a low profile and not very malicious player. His timing on the tackle is atrocious. He is not a nasty player. Keane was a natural born leader. At times way too agressive, but he was also captain of Ireland also and his now the manager at Sunderland. Why does everyone keep putting him in leadership positions? When his loud mouth arrogance became too much Fergie showed him  the door...and rightly so. Rooney's natural agression has nothing to do with Fergie....It is ridiculous to blame Fergie for all the 'transgressions' of his players..and for every example of poor bahvior there are more examples of players of immaculate reputation. Yes Fergie can be a right old ass...but you cannot be telling me that the Ruud fallout is nothing but Ruud's own arrogance, petulance and manipulation. He can't stand the idea of being on the bench..not for ManU not for Holalnd. Watch him be a right old prick if he loses his place at Real. Come on..I agree Fergie treated some players poorly...but Ruud? I'm at a loss with that one..peace breds



  I have to hold Fergie responsible for his players, Filho, because it is his duty to the team and to the sport to reign in his players when their players get out of hand, and there seems to be some tacit approval that comes from the head coach, that has allowed them as individuals and as a team to play they way they hve been apt to do for so long.  I don't buy that Scholes just suffers from bad timing, I don't buy that Gabriel Heinze is not a very dirty player, (not that you mentioned him, but he is one of the nastiest players in the league)  and I don't buy that Cantona, humbled himself because of Fergie, I know he was always arrogant, but his behaviour on the pitch (and off it, of course  :devil:) was at its worst and most arrogant when playing for manu.  Besides, after the hefty suspension and possible threat of punitive action, not to mention the fact that the league would have hammered him for every infraction thereafter, Cantona had no choice but to turn into an angel.  His behaviour would have improved just as drastically under any coach.  There's a reason why Blackburn racks up so many yellow cards under Mark Hughes. the team is a reflection of the manager.  The RvN incident, while I still think he had goals left in him, I can understand why Fergie started looking more at Saha, but I am not surprised that this has happened, but it isn't that big a deal to me.  I was more disappointed in the way he treated Barthez, and you can't tell me that Fergie showed class on that one.


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Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2007, 07:42:02 PM »
   Read carefully everything I said, Filho. I am attacking SAF's character as a whole.  In my opinion, he IS a imps!!   I mentioned that I did not see the documentary but was told about it......leaving it up to the british crew to verify its existence or non-existence.  Alex Ferguson is very much a bully of a coach and that is exactly what I am saying.  Yorke and Beckham weren't the only players he treated like crap on their way out the club and clearly that proves to be a major flaw in his character.  Over the years there have been hundreds, if not thousands of players that have been released by their respective clubs for any of a myriad of reasons........but SAF has been involved in a disproportionate amount of controversies involving his players.  The examples you gave of his "fair treatment" to guys like Saha, etc. all seem to come in the years where his old ass is mellowing out.  I never liked the way he or his teams represented him and he can be just as hypocritical a manager as the worst of them.  His style has always been to be a bully, and his teams tended to play the same way, too.  It's no coincidence that the unskilled Roy Keane was his captain. It is no coincidence that Rooney has gone thus far in the league with his behaviour going as unchecked as it has.  Cantona showed the most arrogance while playing under Fergie (he definitely wasn't jump-kickin' no fans in the stands when he played for Leeds), and it is also no coincidence that Paul Scholes regularly commits some of the most mind boggling tacles (and quite often, gets away with them).  The team is a reflection of him, but what he has shown me, with the treatment of Yorke, Beckham, Barthez, RvN, etc, is that he would not think twice about turning (publicly) on his own players that have brought him alot of the success he has enjoyed as a manager.  There simply has to be something wrong with that picture.

Chow..you may be right that Fergusson is ah impse..but you are wrong about him having a disproportionate number of public falling outs with players. Payers and coaches constantly fallout over stupid egotistical things. He just happens to be ManU's manager and that is one of the more high profile clubs in the world. Blaming Fergie for Cantona? Cantona was always an arrogant prick..you should read more about his career. It is well documented. Blaming Fergie for his jumpkick is bull and you know it. But here is what you don't realize...The season after his jumpkick he led ManU to the league and cup double and did not get a single suspension and I actually think he did not get a single yellow card in the process as well.....so he actually cleaned up his act under Fergie...more than under any manager. That is a fact. Scholes tackles like that cuz he is a shit tackler and most would agree he is a low profile and not very malicious player. His timing on the tackle is atrocious. He is not a nasty player. Keane was a natural born leader. At times way too agressive, but he was also captain of Ireland also and his now the manager at Sunderland. Why does everyone keep putting him in leadership positions? When his loud mouth arrogance became too much Fergie showed him  the door...and rightly so. Rooney's natural agression has nothing to do with Fergie....It is ridiculous to blame Fergie for all the 'transgressions' of his players..and for every example of poor bahvior there are more examples of players of immaculate reputation. Yes Fergie can be a right old ass...but you cannot be telling me that the Ruud fallout is nothing but Ruud's own arrogance, petulance and manipulation. He can't stand the idea of being on the bench..not for ManU not for Holalnd. Watch him be a right old prick if he loses his place at Real. Come on..I agree Fergie treated some players poorly...but Ruud? I'm at a loss with that one..peace breds



  I have to hold Fergie responsible for his players, Filho, because it is his duty to the team and to the sport to reign in his players when their players get out of hand, and there seems to be some tacit approval that comes from the head coach, that has allowed them as individuals and as a team to play they way they hve been apt to do for so long.  I don't buy that Scholes just suffers from bad timing, I don't buy that Gabriel Heinze is not a very dirty player, (not that you mentioned him, but he is one of the nastiest players in the league)  and I don't buy that Cantona, humbled himself because of Fergie, I know he was always arrogant, but his behaviour on the pitch (and off it, of course  :devil:) was at its worst and most arrogant when playing for manu.  Besides, after the hefty suspension and possible threat of punitive action, not to mention the fact that the league would have hammered him for every infraction thereafter, Cantona had no choice but to turn into an angel.  His behaviour would have improved just as drastically under any coach.  There's a reason why Blackburn racks up so many yellow cards under Mark Hughes. the team is a reflection of the manager.  The RvN incident, while I still think he had goals left in him, I can understand why Fergie started looking more at Saha, but I am not surprised that this has happened, but it isn't that big a deal to me.  I was more disappointed in the way he treated Barthez, and you can't tell me that Fergie showed class on that one.


    .......and Dwight, of course.  peace to you, too, padnah.


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Offline Filho

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2007, 08:12:15 PM »
  I have to hold Fergie responsible for his players, Filho, because it is his duty to the team and to the sport to reign in his players when their players get out of hand, and there seems to be some tacit approval that comes from the head coach, that has allowed them as individuals and as a team to play they way they hve been apt to do for so long.  I don't buy that Scholes just suffers from bad timing, I don't buy that Gabriel Heinze is not a very dirty player, (not that you mentioned him, but he is one of the nastiest players in the league)  and I don't buy that Cantona, humbled himself because of Fergie, I know he was always arrogant, but his behaviour on the pitch (and off it, of course  :devil:) was at its worst and most arrogant when playing for manu.  Besides, after the hefty suspension and possible threat of punitive action, not to mention the fact that the league would have hammered him for every infraction thereafter, Cantona had no choice but to turn into an angel.  His behaviour would have improved just as drastically under any coach.  There's a reason why Blackburn racks up so many yellow cards under Mark Hughes. the team is a reflection of the manager.  The RvN incident, while I still think he had goals left in him, I can understand why Fergie started looking more at Saha, but I am not surprised that this has happened, but it isn't that big a deal to me.  I was more disappointed in the way he treated Barthez, and you can't tell me that Fergie showed class on that one.


    .......and Dwight, of course.  peace to you, too, padnah.

respek....I understand what you are saying about managers and teams' being a refection of their attitude, but you are removing all responsibility from the players and that is dangerous. Things like diving, faking injuries...managers have some control over that. But a player going bezerk and jumpkicking someone in the stands? Only Graeme Souness would condone that  ;) The players are all individuals and some of their flaws make them the players they are. Rooney ain't Rooney with that lil' extra aggression. Breds..Scholes cannot tackle to save his life...and Heinze..well he is just your typical hard, dirty, cynical Argentine defender... I hadda give you that one. hehehe. But he would play like that no matter what club he is at.  I also agree that Fergie is a hot-head and make some questionable decisions...but he is in good company.

I guess we agree to disagree on the other points. Especially the RvN scene. Cool ting  :beermug: :beermug:

Offline JDB

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2007, 10:30:55 PM »
The reason why Neville, Giggs and Solkjaer last so long is because dem men is quiet, obedient fellers who doh cause any ruckus. Look how Solkjaer settle for getting corbeaux sweat most games he plays.
And what is wrong with this if you are part of a football TEAM.

There was a documentary made about him that has been circulated around England that talks about even his treatment of black players.  I havent seen it, but i was told about it.
Nice...just throw that out there. You haven't seen it and can't make a definite statement but let eeverybody imagine how much he mistreats black players. Class. I wouldn't bother to get into addressing this because it would lend credence to the notion.

For years, he was the bullying manager in the EPL and used to clash with and try to intimidate many a manager and player........until Jose Mourinho and Porto Jam him up in the CL a few years ago. He tried the same s**t in the media with Jose that he did with everybody else, but Jose was a step ahead of him.
Anybody who will complain about Ferguson being intimidating and then praise Mourinho is being partisan at best and is just very ignorant.

Read carefully everything I said, Filho. I am attacking SAF's character as a whole.  In my opinion, he IS a imps!!   I mentioned that I did not see the documentary but was told about it......leaving it up to the british crew to verify its existence or non-existence.  Alex Ferguson is very much a bully of a coach and that is exactly what I am saying.  Yorke and Beckham weren't the only players he treated like crap on their way out the club and clearly that proves to be a major flaw in his character.  Over the years there have been hundreds, if not thousands of players that have been released by their respective clubs for any of a myriad of reasons........but SAF has been involved in a disproportionate amount of controversies involving his players.  The examples you gave of his "fair treatment" to guys like Saha, etc. all seem to come in the years where his old ass is mellowing out.  I never liked the way he or his teams represented him and he can be just as hypocritical a manager as the worst of them.  His style has always been to be a bully, and his teams tended to play the same way, too.  It's no coincidence that the unskilled Roy Keane was his captain. It is no coincidence that Rooney has gone thus far in the league with his behaviour going as unchecked as it has.  Cantona showed the most arrogance while playing under Fergie (he definitely wasn't jump-kickin' no fans in the stands when he played for Leeds), and it is also no coincidence that Paul Scholes regularly commits some of the most mind boggling tacles (and quite often, gets away with them).  The team is a reflection of him, but what he has shown me, with the treatment of Yorke, Beckham, Barthez, RvN, etc, is that he would not think twice about turning (publicly) on his own players that have brought him alot of the success he has enjoyed as a manager.  There simply has to be something wrong with that picture.
This is loaded with BS. All managers have problems with players who eventually leave a club. At United it gets more publicity because of the club's size and players generally do not want to leave so they gripe when they sre dispensed with. Describing this as "disproportionate" is just talking out of your ass because you do not know what happens elsewhere.

As for your other statements:
Cantona and Rooney - Both Rooney and Cantona had disciplinary issues before they joined United. Cantona was at Leeds for 3 months so to compare 3 months to 7 years is not valid. How would you explain the fact that Cantona never attacked team-mates and club officials at United as he did at his previous clubs. How is it that Ferguson is responsible for his bad behaiour on the field but no mention is made of the areas where Cantona improved. An interesting note froma aother thread...Beckham get sent off 8 times in his career,  5 for Madrid, 2 for England and 1 for Unitied where he played over 400 games..but Ferguson is the guy who has his team playing like bullies? On a similar track is the disciplianry record of Arsenal a result of Wenger. Does the fact that they are better now than during the dyas when Viera was there mean that Wenger is no longer an imps.

Roy Keane - Unskilled? What is the definition of skill in football? Passing, tackling, shooting, positional sense, tactical awareness...whatever the definition Keane had it and to suggest that he was unskilled is to not understand footbal and to get tied down with the belief that skill = flair (which it does not) or that you are just trying to make a point at all costs. I have a serious question...how would you compare the "skills" of Lampard and Keane?

Fianlly...how has Ferguson publicly tunred on his players? When all of these incidents happen what has Ferguson "publicly" said. In each case absolutely nothing. These stories will no doubt get written in a book at some point but everyone tells these stories and nothing is said to the press at the time a player leaves. In his lsat book Ince was described as getting too big for his boots and he gave examples of how it actually hurt the team. He had only good things to say about Yorke and has not been vocal about Beckham in the press. And this is not because he didn't have opportunities...Keane, Ferdinand, Beckham and several others including Saint Yorke could have been dressed down publicly on occasion but never in public.

Compare that to the childish accusations by Mourinho about Gallas threatening to sell guns for Chelsea or Carvalho getting dressed down in the press.

Apparently other clubs could bench players and sell players but when it is Ferguson it is "turning on players publicly". Never mind the fact that when a player is benched or sold, it is another player who gets a run, or are certain players deserving of special treatment no matter what the team's current prospects are. Ferguson has shown, if nothing else, that he makes team decisions. If RvN get slighted well guess what Yorke made space for him, Beckham, well Kanchelskis had to leave for that to happen. Keane, Robson benched in his final game for the club, an FA Cup final.

Generally your point about Ferguson being an imps would make more sense if you said that all successful managers at big clubs are imps, when you don't back that side.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 10:43:53 PM by JDB »
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Offline Grande

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2007, 12:40:33 AM »
The reason why Neville, Giggs and Solkjaer last so long is because dem men is quiet, obedient fellers who doh cause any ruckus. Look how Solkjaer settle for getting corbeaux sweat most games he plays.
And what is wrong with this if you are part of a football TEAM.

but JDB, I eh say anything wrong with it.

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Offline Peong

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2007, 12:53:32 PM »
When RVN started ridin the bench he was joint top scorer in the league with Henry.

Yet somehow in you Man U fans' minds, you find a way to legitimise benching the league's leading goalscorer.
Good for you.

Rooney was the other striker at the time, and he was chipping in with some goals every now and then, but not like RVN.
Rooney was and is one of SAF's favourites, so he bound to play.

There was definitely something more to it than just giving Saha a chance to play.

Offline Cantona007

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2007, 01:06:26 PM »
When RVN started ridin the bench he was joint top scorer in the league with Henry.

Yet somehow in you Man U fans' minds, you find a way to legitimise benching the league's leading goalscorer.
Good for you.

Rooney was the other striker at the time, and he was chipping in with some goals every now and then, but not like RVN.
Rooney was and is one of SAF's favourites, so he bound to play.

There was definitely something more to it than just giving Saha a chance to play.

It should be obvious that if in the manager's opinion a player is not fitting into the scheme of things (performance-wise, team-ethic-wise or whatever) then that player does not play. I also like that you say that "definitely" there was more afoot than giving Saha a chance to play (the same Saha, a black player, who apparently SAF does not care for). I love the evidence that you have provided. You should write for the Sun.
BTW, Fletcher is one of SAF's favourites and this year he has been reduced to a squad player... it would be easier if you stated that you are an ABU and be done with it, instead of trying to use (convoluted) logic. If you are biased, that's OK... it's natural... but your points are becoming more and more shrill and at the same time, less and less logical.
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Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2007, 06:55:04 AM »

   I am trying to be a kinder, gentler Mango Chow! in '07, (Carib-Briton, take note :devil:) coming with a little less pepper sauce and more chardon benit to meh tone, JDB.  So with that in mind I will try to overlook some of your tone and stay on the overpass.  Here we go:

The reason why Neville, Giggs and Solkjaer last so long is because dem men is quiet, obedient fellers who doh cause any ruckus. Look how Solkjaer settle for getting corbeaux sweat most games he plays.
And what is wrong with this if you are part of a football TEAM.

There was a documentary made about him that has been circulated around England that talks about even his treatment of black players.  I havent seen it, but i was told about it.
Nice...just throw that out there. You haven't seen it and can't make a definite statement but let eeverybody imagine how much he mistreats black players. Class. I wouldn't bother to get into addressing this because it would lend credence to the notion.

    I didn't throw it out there, JDB, BBC did.  The name of the documentary is "Alex Ferguson, The untold Story" and it was aired sometime in 2004 on BBC2 and from what I was told, it addresses the treatment by SAF of Paul McGrath, Paul Ince and Dwight Yorke.  The purpose wasn't to let anybody's imagination run anywhere as much as it was to maybe find someone on the forum that may have heard about it and given us more insight.  I thought I put the whole "....British crew..." thing out there.  Apparently it went over your head, but you can trust that I don't need you or anybody else to address something I know to be true (the documentary's existence, that is.  That is all I "put out there") to lend credence to something I state to be fact or to add credibility to my character.

For years, he was the bullying manager in the EPL and used to clash with and try to intimidate many a manager and player........until Jose Mourinho and Porto Jam him up in the CL a few years ago. He tried the same s**t in the media with Jose that he did with everybody else, but Jose was a step ahead of him.
Anybody who will complain about Ferguson being intimidating and then praise Mourinho is being partisan at best and is just very ignorant.

     Call me partisan and ignorant if you will, but to compare Jose to SAF is like comparing tangerines to grapefruit.  I'm sure they have certain similarities, but their style of man-management has still been quite different to this point in Jose's short career. I appreciate Jose for his wit, sense of humour, and his "struggles" with the english language can make for some very interesting soundbites, but so far, just about every player that has played for him has spoken very, very highly of him......inluding the ones he has released. What got me liking Mourinho is the way he handled SAF in the media the year that Porto eliminated manu in the CL and won the boring final.  He seems to be one of very few people in Englsnd or Europe that don't seem afraid of him.

Read carefully everything I said, Filho. I am attacking SAF's character as a whole.  In my opinion, he IS a imps!!   I mentioned that I did not see the documentary but was told about it......leaving it up to the british crew to verify its existence or non-existence.  Alex Ferguson is very much a bully of a coach and that is exactly what I am saying.  Yorke and Beckham weren't the only players he treated like crap on their way out the club and clearly that proves to be a major flaw in his character.  Over the years there have been hundreds, if not thousands of players that have been released by their respective clubs for any of a myriad of reasons........but SAF has been involved in a disproportionate amount of controversies involving his players.  The examples you gave of his "fair treatment" to guys like Saha, etc. all seem to come in the years where his old ass is mellowing out.  I never liked the way he or his teams represented him and he can be just as hypocritical a manager as the worst of them.  His style has always been to be a bully, and his teams tended to play the same way, too.  It's no coincidence that the unskilled Roy Keane was his captain. It is no coincidence that Rooney has gone thus far in the league with his behaviour going as unchecked as it has.  Cantona showed the most arrogance while playing under Fergie (he definitely wasn't jump-kickin' no fans in the stands when he played for Leeds), and it is also no coincidence that Paul Scholes regularly commits some of the most mind boggling tacles (and quite often, gets away with them).  The team is a reflection of him, but what he has shown me, with the treatment of Yorke, Beckham, Barthez, RvN, etc, is that he would not think twice about turning (publicly) on his own players that have brought him alot of the success he has enjoyed as a manager.  There simply has to be something wrong with that picture.
This is loaded with BS. All managers have problems with players who eventually leave a club. At United it gets more publicity because of the club's size and players generally do not want to leave so they gripe when they sre dispensed with. Describing this as "disproportionate" is just talking out of your ass because you do not know what happens elsewhere.

You are absolutely right.  Many players part ways with clubs and have not-so-pleasant media exchanges with the coach or manager after they have been "dispensed with", as you put it. SAF likes to send people to the reserves first, for good measure.

As for your other statements:
Cantona and Rooney - Both Rooney and Cantona had disciplinary issues before they joined United. Cantona was at Leeds for 3 months so to compare 3 months to 7 years is not valid. How would you explain the fact that Cantona never attacked team-mates and club officials at United as he did at his previous clubs. How is it that Ferguson is responsible for his bad behaiour on the field but no mention is made of the areas where Cantona improved. An interesting note froma aother thread...Beckham get sent off 8 times in his career,  5 for Madrid, 2 for England and 1 for Unitied where he played over 400 games..but Ferguson is the guy who has his team playing like bullies? On a similar track is the disciplianry record of Arsenal a result of Wenger. Does the fact that they are better now than during the dyas when Viera was there mean that Wenger is no longer an imps.


A coach is responsible for his team, period. Cantona was a boss player but he was a ass!  SAF is responsible for setting the tone and standards of behaviour that are and not acceptable, especially at a club as big as manu, and especially as revered a figure in football as SAF is.  If he did such a wonderful job improving Cantona's behaviour, then why is rooney still not controlling his temper and still abusing graham poll at will?  Why is c. ronaldo still diving all over the place and winning penalties for manu?  You mean to tell me that the great SAF can't talk to those two by now to curb that sort of thing?  Maybe he has and this is the best we should expect of them.  Arsene9 is still a imps and you can ask certain ass-n'-all fans if I haven't been as critical of their coach and some of their players as well, but when it was time for Viera to leave, not even Arsene9 tried to make a spectacle of him, whether they disagreed or not.
    When you look at Beckham's overall career and disciplinary record, his style of play is pretty harmles.  He was never one to be trying to get in people's faces like rooney, cantona and keane.  Most of his sendings off hve been for petulant behaviour and retaliation.  Nothing more.



Roy Keane - Unskilled? What is the definition of skill in football? Passing, tackling, shooting, positional sense, tactical awareness...whatever the definition Keane had it and to suggest that he was unskilled is to not understand footbal and to get tied down with the belief that skill = flair (which it does not) or that you are just trying to make a point at all costs. I have a serious question...how would you compare the "skills" of Lampard and Keane?

    On the professional level that these guys play on, roy keane was unskilled!! Every professional footballer and his grandmother can pass, kick and shoot (and according to my boy, Filho, not everybody can tackle :devil:) and positional sense and tactical awareness is learned in the training ground.  I don't know why you bring up Lampard to me (maybe because I am clearly a Jose and Chelsea fan) but I have never regarded Lampard (whether on this forum or in football conversations) as a "skilled" player.  There's a reason why I have sarcastically referred to him as an "assassin".  You should ask me why.   I do appreciate Lampard alot more than I did keane because Lampard doesn't try to be some great big intimidator on the field and he scores goals at a much higher rate than keane could have ever dreamed of, much to my chagrin and even against my own criticisms of him.  Keane's overall style of play and leadership may have had its place in and been best suited to the british way of playing football but it wasn't anything I liked to watch.  You can have it.  But I have a serious question for you.  How would YOU compare roy keane to players the like  David Ginola, Juninho, Henry, Leonardo, Zidane, Platini, Cantona, Ryan Giggs, Bergkamp, Tomas Rosicky, Glen Hoddle, Alexander Hleb(.....and the list goes on) etc.  These are all people that play(ed) with "flair", as you call it, but it takes a certain level of skill to play with "flair" and roy keane didn't have it. He has no place among these names.  Claude Makelele has more skill than roy keane ever did.  Yeah, I said that!  ;D




Fianlly...how has Ferguson publicly tunred on his players? When all of these incidents happen what has Ferguson "publicly" said. In each case absolutely nothing. These stories will no doubt get written in a book at some point but everyone tells these stories and nothing is said to the press at the time a player leaves. In his lsat book Ince was described as getting too big for his boots and he gave examples of how it actually hurt the team. He had only good things to say about Yorke and has not been vocal about Beckham in the press. And this is not because he didn't have opportunities...Keane, Ferdinand, Beckham and several others including Saint Yorke could have been dressed down publicly on occasion but never in public.

   When you are one of the biggest authorities in football, managing one of the biggest club teams in the sport (as you and others have pointed out) you don't have to walk up to a microphone in a press conference and actually make a statement for your actions to be deemed as "public"  anybody that knows about the nuances of media relations in sports cn tell you that, JDB.  SAF made a spectacle of Dwight Yorke and he made a spectacle of Fabien Barthez.....when there was no reason to do so to either one of them!!  Yorke was never a player to say anything out of line and Barthez only asked to be relaeased after Tim Howard was used to (possibly) send a message? to Barthez and Barthez was sent to the reserves......and fergie refused to release him.  I still don't know what fergie was trying to prove with that situation.  For all of his talent, Tim Howard proved that he wasn't ready at that time to step in as manu's #1, especially ahead of Barthez.  The way Beckham was released, was to make a statement, IMHO.  Beckham has shown, time and time again, that he would take the high road when it comes to team matters but whatever dressing room spat he had with fergie, fergie showed him who is boss, right?     

       

 
Compare that to the childish accusations by Mourinho about Gallas threatening to sell guns for Chelsea or Carvalho getting dressed down in the press.

     Gallas had already been complaining in the media for about two seasons about not wanting to play different defensive positions (according to your theory, being a "team player") and was telling all that wanted to hear that he was going to leave Chelsea at the end of his contract and maybe it was a negotiating ployor maybe it wasn't, but Jose made it quite clear what Gallas' value to the team was and also made it quite clear that he wanted him to stay.  Chelsea still tried to sit and negotiate with him but he was forever talking in the press.  Jose's first action towards him came when he had either left him out of the tour to the US or relegated him to the reserves (I cannot remember which came first), but his ranting in the media was getting louder and louder, and i'm sure at that point, was becoming pretty disruptive to the team unity that you hear so many of the Chelsea players talk about that they (and all other teams should) have.  Maybe Jose was lying.  I wouldn't hesitate to vilify him if he was, but
where and when was that press conference that Gallas said he was going to have to "tell the truth" about what really happened?  Maybe he'll  do like Paul Ince and write a book instead.



Apparently other clubs could bench players and sell players but when it is Ferguson it is "turning on players publicly". Never mind the fact that when a player is benched or sold, it is another player who gets a run, or are certain players deserving of special treatment no matter what the team's current prospects are. Ferguson has shown, if nothing else, that he makes team decisions. If RvN get slighted well guess what Yorke made space for him, Beckham, well Kanchelskis had to leave for that to happen. Keane, Robson benched in his final game for the club, an FA Cup final.
 
      See above. 

Generally your point about Ferguson being an imps would make more sense if you said that all successful managers at big clubs are imps, when you don't back that side.
   
                  That's just a very dumb summary, JDB.  I expect better of a man with your sense.   I am not the first man to hold SAF in a less than beloved light, and I certainly won't be the last.  I recognize the man for what he has acomplished and I give him credit for having found his niche and riding it out for this long.  God bless him, but his history with players, managers referees, etc, leave me to regard him as a imps.  It has nothing to do with my non-support of manu.  There are a whole lot of other teams I don't support (high profile ones, too) and I don't call their managers no imps.
       


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Offline Peong

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2007, 01:22:48 PM »
 :rotfl:  Oh yes, Cantona you not up to speed with this conversation yet.

Quote from: Cantona007

It should be obvious that if in the manager's opinion a player is not fitting into the scheme of things (possibles given here) then that player does not play.

Dred, everybody knows that.  What is under debate is WHAT CAUSED Ferg to form that opinion.
And of the possibilities you listed, performance was DEFINITELY not a reason.

Quote from: Cantona007
the same Saha, a black player

Please don't mix me up in that black player talk.

Quote from: Cantona007
BTW, Fletcher is one of SAF's favourites and this year he has been reduced to a squad player...

Saddis, please focus, I never said that all Ferg's favourites get to play.  Of course a player has to be good enough, duh.
But being a favourite DEFINITELY helps.

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If you are biased, that's OK... it's natural...

Sorry mr/mrs cantona, who here is biased?   :rotfl:

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but your points are becoming more and more shrill and at the same time, less and less logical.

What other points did I make?  I feel you mixin me up with somebody else.  The only other post I made was how Ferg thinks he's the club.  More of an opinion than a point.

My point remains, to bench your leading scorer for the current and the past few seasons (150 goals in 5 seasons!), you have to be dotish or an ass.

Offline Filho

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2007, 03:20:15 PM »
My point remains, to bench your leading scorer for the current and the past few seasons (150 goals in 5 seasons!), you have to be dotish or an ass.

Not really peong. Try to think of it as a team sport. Fergie may have thought that when ManU played with RvN, the attack was too one dimensional and although Ruud may score 20+ league goals per season, his type of play possibly meant the rest of the team scored fewer goals. It is not an easy decision, but based on where ManU is now, compared to where they were in previous seasons, Fergie is so far getting it right. Manu as a team has scored more goals than they historically did with Ruud in the squad. Maybe it has nothing to do with Ruud's departure..maybe it did. Ask yourself...What is more important, a team with a 25-goal per season scorer that scores 70 goals a season across the entire team and finishes 2nd/3rd....OR.... a team with two 15-goal per season scorers that scores 85 goals per season across the whole team and finishes 1st. I believe that is the risk Fergie was willing to take and it is paying dividends. But the season isn't over, but so far so good.

Offline Cantona007

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2007, 04:44:46 PM »
Peong, I actually understand your point, but in this case, it really is not borne out... simple: six points clear at the top and a team playing some of their best attacking football for a while. Also, please...you don't want to be mixed up in that "black player talk", then don't bring it up. If you didn't mention it it wouldn't be discussed.
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Offline Big Magician

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2007, 04:56:47 PM »
SIR Alex Ferguson
Little Magician is King.......ask Jorge Campos


Offline Benchwarmer

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2007, 06:27:24 PM »


Not really peong. Try to think of it as a team sport. Fergie may have thought that when ManU played with RvN, the attack was too one dimensional and although Ruud may score 20+ league goals per season, his type of play possibly meant the rest of the team scored fewer goals.
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people, including me saying the same thing when Stern John play for Trinidad. It it too one dimensional.. but ppl on the board will carry on if yuh say bench stern and give others a chance.
I also believe that SAF is not really a bully but more like a dictator. If yuh open yuh mouth, yuh gone. He had no reason what so ever to sell Stam. Stam went on and play with Lazio and then Ac Milan.
I believe the man is let small things hinder the team tho. If you could ask two players who do not get along to play together, why the coach must get rid of one he fall out with. Suck it up.
I also think Keane was just an extension of SAF. No real skill( when i say skill, i not talkin bout flair but Passing, Tackling correctly, shooting) but the players he have could play in a system. Ronaldhino would have never survived if he went to MAn U. I dont think he fit into there system. I doh like the man but if that is what he have to do to win titles...bless up...

Offline Filho

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2007, 08:06:17 PM »

......He had no reason what so ever to sell Stam. Stam went on and play with Lazio and then Ac Milan.
I believe the man is let small things hinder the team tho. If you could ask two players who do not get along to play together, why the coach must get rid of one he fall out with. Suck it up.
I also think Keane was just an extension of SAF. No real skill( when i say skill, i not talkin bout flair but Passing, Tackling correctly, shooting) but the players he have could play in a system. Ronaldhino would have never survived if he went to MAn U. I dont think he fit into there system. I doh like the man but if that is what he have to do to win titles...bless up...

Wrong. Stam wrote a book where he went on to insult some of his teammates at ManU while he was still there. That caused a lot of tension between him and his teammates. He had to go. He definitely ws not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Keane had a lot of skill. You need to watch his game carefully. Sure he was not an elegant playmaker and he added a lot of bite in the midfield, but Keane had a fine range of passing, hag great close control (how  many times would he make marauding runs from deep and you could not take the ball of him) excellent technique and scored his share of amazing goals.

Ronaldinho could fit into ManU. Sir Alex Fergusson always made room for the more artistic players and gave them a little more freedom to express themselves. Look at Cristiano Ronaldo today, Cantona in the past. Players like Giggs and Rooney have the freedom to express their individual talents at ManU under Fergie. BUt Barca was the better choice :D

Offline Benchwarmer

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2007, 08:40:30 PM »


Wrong. Stam wrote a book where he went on to insult some of his teammates at ManU while he was still there. That caused a lot of tension between him and his teammates. He had to go. He definitely ws not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Keane had a lot of skill. You need to watch his game carefully. Sure he was not an elegant playmaker and he added a lot of bite in the midfield, but Keane had a fine range of passing, hag great close control (how many times would he make marauding runs from deep and you could not take the ball of him) excellent technique and scored his share of amazing goals.

Ronaldinho could fit into ManU. Sir Alex Fergusson always made room for the more artistic players and gave them a little more freedom to express themselves. Look at Cristiano Ronaldo today, Cantona in the past. Players like Giggs and Rooney have the freedom to express their individual talents at ManU under Fergie. BUt Barca was the better choice :D
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Keane was insulting his own players on the field for years and the man did nuthin. The man is play favourites with his squad.
When yuh see a man runin at yuh who hands by his side and movin like a robot.. yuh would move out the way too..
I doh believe so.. i doh expect C Ronaldo to last long dere.......I believe he could have made room for Veron when he was dere.( grant everybody doh take t the english game) yuh really feel Rooney is get to do what he want to do at Man U????

Offline Filho

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2007, 10:22:25 PM »
Keane was insulting his own players on the field for years and the man did nuthin. The man is play favourites with his squad.
When yuh see a man runin at yuh who hands by his side and movin like a robot.. yuh would move out the way too..
I doh believe so.. i doh expect C Ronaldo to last long dere.......I believe he could have made room for Veron when he was dere.( grant everybody doh take t the english game) yuh really feel Rooney is get to do what he want to do at Man U????

Yuh just arguing for argument's sake. There is nothing I have said that you can really deny is not true. Did you ever read Stam's book? It was nowhere in the league of what Keane used to say to motivate his players. And when Keane did cros the line he get his ass boot too. He got carried away with his criticism and had to go.

The robot comment was just dam funny. The man really used to look like he could hit you a chop when he blow by yuh  ;D ;D But he used to run a  midfield becasue he could play too..not just bully men around

No player gets to do exactly what they want in any team. Some players get more freedom within the team's tactical plan, whether it is a license to improvise more, or drift into several different positions at certain periods of the game. Even Ronaldinho at Barca has help keep the team shape while creating his magic ...how often do you ever see him drift from the left side of midfield and just pick up and play anywhere he wants? Rooney gets a lot of freedom in attack and in most games he roams all over the attacking third. Other times he appears to have instructions to take up a position on the wing..it all depends.

Offline Peong

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2007, 08:48:33 AM »
Also, please...you don't want to be mixed up in that "black player talk", then don't bring it up. If you didn't mention it it wouldn't be discussed.


 :rotfl: someting wrong wit you oui.
Eat some fish and re-read the thread.

Offline Cantona007

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Re: Ruud reveals breaking point over Fergie omission
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2007, 09:07:08 AM »
Also, please...you don't want to be mixed up in that "black player talk", then don't bring it up. If you didn't mention it it wouldn't be discussed.


 :rotfl: someting wrong wit you oui.
Eat some fish and re-read the thread.
I will take that cyber-calpet... my mistake and I apologise for mixing you up with the other rubbish that was spewed  ;D
I still tink that your main points aren't valid though... I don't think I can convince you so... to each his own  :beermug:
PS: Why fish?
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