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Author Topic: England match is again an A level friendly....  (Read 5262 times)

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Offline E-man

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England match is again an A level friendly....
« on: June 04, 2008, 08:40:57 AM »
The latest FIFA ranking gave no points for the England match. We got 211.65 point from the Barbados match and are up one spot to 87.

01/06   TRI 0:3 (0:2) ENG   Friendly   (no points)
11/05   TRI 3:0 (1:0) BRB   Friendly   211.65

looking at England (they are up 2 to 9th):

01/06   TRI 0:3 (0:2) ENG   Friendly   (no points)
28/05   ENG 2:0 (1:0) USA   Friendly   496.73

CONCACAF:

14   1   Mexico
21   2   USA
37   3   Honduras
60   4   Canada
60   5   Panama
75   6   Costa Rica
87   7   Trinidad and Tobago
89   8   Guatemala
98   9   Jamaica
104   10   Cuba
108   11   Guyana
113   12   Haiti
120   13   El Salvador
121   14   Barbados
124   15   Antigua and Barbuda
139   16   Bermuda
143   17   Grenada
145   18   Suriname
146   19   Netherlands Antilles
147   20   St. Vincent and the Grenadines

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/lastranking/gender=m/fullranking.html

85  Zimbabwe 367 10  23
87  Trinidad and Tobago 365 1  0
88  New Zealand
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 02:07:06 PM by E-man »

Offline weary1969

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2008, 08:49:16 AM »
Y I eh surprize
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Offline spideybuff

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2008, 08:55:19 AM »
You get points for losing 3-0, once it is against a higher team or what? I thought we would be happy that no points were subtracted.
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Offline Midknight

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2008, 09:00:58 AM »
The points for the England game would not have been accounted for in this month's version of the rankings. The cut off date is usually the thursday before publication...

Spideybuff, it is indeed possible to earn points losing to a higher ranked team, and i suspect it was very likely that we would gain after the england match, whatever the score. Getting blazed 10-0 and losing 1-0 to the same team has (unfortunately) the same mathematical effect on your ranking since they changed the system after the World Cup...
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Offline E-man

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2008, 09:03:22 AM »
You get points for losing 3-0, once it is against a higher team or what? I thought we would be happy that no points were subtracted.

There were no points assigned, not even "0". Yes depending on the rank of the opposition you will probably get 0, but in some cases you will get a few points. England didn't get any points out of it either. What I'm trying to say is it looks like the match simply wasn't considered in the rankings.

Offline E-man

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2008, 09:07:47 AM »
The points for the England game would not have been accounted for in this month's version of the rankings. The cut off date is usually the thursday before publication...


Yes they should have. It is listed there as being played in the time period.
http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=eng/ranking/gender=m/index.html

Other matches from June 1 got points just for example:

01/06   SWE 0:1 (0:0) UKR   Friendly   531.00
01/06   POL 1:1 (1:1) DEN   Friendly   167.00


Offline weary1969

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2008, 09:08:57 AM »
I doh really take d FIFA rankin on d only real issue is soon no work permit go b received so dey betta start explorin other markets
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Offline Midknight

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2008, 09:26:04 AM »
The points for the England game would not have been accounted for in this month's version of the rankings. The cut off date is usually the thursday before publication...


Yes they should have. It is listed there as being played in the time period.
http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=eng/ranking/gender=m/index.html

Other matches from June 1 got points just for example:

01/06   SWE 0:1 (0:0) UKR   Friendly   531.00
01/06   POL 1:1 (1:1) DEN   Friendly   167.00

Yeah, but I checked a few others and they weren't given. For instance Tunisia played a WCQ the same day and it wasn't creditted. I think they are still in the process of calculating some of them. and those that have already been were not factored into the published ranking.

If the matches are not be considered in the rankings, they wouldn't be in the list. I'm sure you won't see Grenada's friendly against England C in their "latest points"

I wouldn't panic if I were you.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 09:29:51 AM by Midknight »
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Offline elan

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2008, 09:41:01 AM »
The points for the England game would not have been accounted for in this month's version of the rankings. The cut off date is usually the thursday before publication...


Yes they should have. It is listed there as being played in the time period.
http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=eng/ranking/gender=m/index.html

Other matches from June 1 got points just for example:

01/06   SWE 0:1 (0:0) UKR   Friendly   531.00
01/06   POL 1:1 (1:1) DEN   Friendly   167.00

Yeah, but I checked a few others and they weren't given. For instance Tunisia played a WCQ the same day and it wasn't creditted. I think they are still in the process of calculating some of them. and those that have already been were not factored into the published ranking.

If the matches are not be considered in the rankings, they wouldn't be in the list. I'm sure you won't see Grenada's friendly against England C in their "latest points"

I wouldn't panic if I were you.


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Offline Blue

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2008, 12:19:20 PM »
The points for the England game would not have been accounted for in this month's version of the rankings. The cut off date is usually the thursday before publication...


Yes they should have. It is listed there as being played in the time period.
http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=eng/ranking/gender=m/index.html

Other matches from June 1 got points just for example:

01/06   SWE 0:1 (0:0) UKR   Friendly   531.00
01/06   POL 1:1 (1:1) DEN   Friendly   167.00



Maybe its because our friendly actually finished on Monday June 2 (GMT)?

Offline Papasmurf

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2008, 12:28:25 PM »
I think it is the number of subs that were made. I not sure, but i heard a commentator speaking about it a couple weeks ago during the last set of friendlies. There is a limit of subs u can make for it to be recognized officially by FIFA.

Offline Blue

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2008, 01:51:21 PM »
I think it is the number of subs that were made. I not sure, but i heard a commentator speaking about it a couple weeks ago during the last set of friendlies. There is a limit of subs u can make for it to be recognized officially by FIFA.

Yeah, Jack gave dem special dispensation to use 7 subs, rather than the usual 6.

Offline Deeks

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2008, 03:07:11 PM »
Why raise all yuh blood pressure on rankings.

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2008, 04:06:53 PM »
Why raise all yuh blood pressure on rankings.

Because they affect seedings and draws for all future competitions. Therefore, the least FIFA should do, if it can't make a realistic ranking,  is to be fair, by counting all matches that were played on June 1st, not just some.  It is meant to be calculated by a computer program, so there isn't really an excuse for not having done the calculations yet - they should happen instantly.
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Offline E-man

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2008, 04:14:14 PM »
Bang Bang! Match could be erased from the record books!!!

It's the match that never was.
Fiasco over England v Trinidad substitutes
By Matt Lawton (Daily Mail)


Last updated at 11:04 PM on 04th June 2008

Leading Football Association officials were facing huge embarrassment last night after it emerged that England's friendly against Trinidad and Tobago could be expunged from the record books.

FIFA have launched an investigation after confirming that they did not give special dispensation to allow England to use seven substitutes in Sunday's 3-0 victory.

Lost his cap: Ashton (right) could have his debut annulled

Technically, it means the game may no longer be regarded as a national A-team match, which in turn could leave the FA having to tell England's players that the game did not count.

Dean Ashton, Joe Hart, Phil Jagielka and Stephen Warnock, who was the controversial seventh substitute, could be told their first international caps will not be recognised. Ditto Gareth Barry's first international goal and David Beckham's 59th appearance as England captain.

The FA insisted that they had received dispensation after manager Fabio Capello asked Trinidad and Tobago officials to let him make 11 changes. After being informed of the controversy, an FA spokesman said: 'We were under the impression we had dispensation.'

Later, the FA appeared to be shifting the blame on to FIFA vice-president and CONCACAF president Jack Warner.

They issued a statement which read: 'The fact of the matter is the opportunity to use seven substitutes was cleared in advance of the game by FIFA, Trinidad and Tobago representative Jack Warner, the FIFA delegate for the game and the match referee.


'There is no way we would have gone ahead with using seven subs without the approval that we were given.'

But after exhaustive checks with all the relevant officials, FIFA confirmed that the laws of the game had been broken.

In a statement released last night, a spokesman said: 'We can confirm that FIFA did not give special dispensation to make up to seven subs.'

It could cause huge embarrassment to Brian Barwick in particular. As chief executive, he was the most senior FA official in Port-of-Spain.

As well as possibly costing England FIFA ranking points, it could sour relations with the same Trinidad officials whose support they were hoping to gain ahead of the 2018 World Cup bidding process.

Warner, one of the most influential men in football, is unlikely to be impressed by the whole episode.

England have returned to the top 10 in the FIFA world rankings, climbing two places to ninth after last week's victories over the U.S.A. and Trinidad and Tobago.

Scotland have dropped two places to 17th but Northern Ireland are up two in 32nd, 10 places ahead of the Republic of Ireland, who fall one spot. Wales are also down one in 53rd.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 04:16:46 PM by E-man »

Offline Deeks

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2008, 04:14:44 PM »
Man we should be able to handle anything they throw at us. If we can't get past the teams we are paired with, then we don't deserve to go to the WC.

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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2008, 04:25:20 PM »
Man we should be able to handle anything they throw at us. If we can't get past the teams we are paired with, then we don't deserve to go to the WC.

But imagine you are drawn against Mexico and Costa Rica in the semi-final round - 3rd place there means u are out.  3rd place behind the same two teams in the Hex means a World Cup place.
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Offline Midknight

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2008, 04:42:05 PM »
Holy administrative snafu jackman!

Will Jack Warner be able to squirm himself out of yet another embarassing mess? Will T&T fans ever learn that they just paid 300 dollars for an overated scrimmage? Will Fifa again come to the rescue of the dynamic uno?

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Offline Deeks

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2008, 05:07:39 PM »
FIFA are bunch of noo-nooks. What's the big deal in using more that the alloted subs. For heavens sake.

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2008, 05:13:10 PM »
Confusion over Trinidad substitutes puts England caps at risk
UK Guardian


The quartet of players handed debuts by England in Sunday's friendly against Trinidad & Tobago are in danger of losing their caps after Fifa suggested the match should not be considered an official A international after the visitors used seven substitutes.

The Fifa president, Sepp Blatter, instigated a new rule at the world governing body four years ago restricting countries to only six changes in a game, a move partly prompted as a result of Sven-Goran Eriksson once fielding an entirely new team for the second half of a friendly defeat to Australia at Upton Park five years ago.


The Football Association were under the impression that they had been granted special permission by Fifa to exceed that limit for the match in Port of Spain, which was played ostensibly to celebrate the Trinidad & Tobago Football Federation's centenary. Fabio Capello introduced Joe Hart, Phil Jagielka, David Bentley and Peter Crouch at half-time, with Ashley Young, Theo Walcott and Stephen Warnock brought on during the second half.

However, the governing body were unimpressed at the number of changes made and last night insisted they had not given either side the green light to bend the rules, potentially stripping the game of A international status. "We can confirm that Fifa did not give special dispensation to make up to seven substitutions at the Trinidad & Tobago versus England match," confirmed a spokesman. "We have spoken internally at Fifa about the matter and nobody allowed this to happen."

While the FA will query that stance - they felt they had been instructed prior to the game by a Fifa official that they could stretch to seven subs having originally asked to play 11 - Fifa's assessment would appear to deny Hart, Jagielka, Warnock and Dean Ashton their first caps for their country, Gareth Barry his first goal and Jermain Defoe his brace. Likewise, David Beckham would only have captained his country on 58 occasions.

It would also, in turn, affect England's Fifa world ranking - the national team climbed two places back into the top 10 last night to stand ninth following Capello's first few games in charge. Trinidad & Tobago, who according to some sources had requested the seventh substitute to accommodate Dwight Yorke's introduction, made only six changes in a game played in front of a capacity crowd of 23,000 at the Hasely Crawford Stadium.

Offline ricky

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2008, 05:51:38 PM »
Eman
this may be a silly question
but should that not result in an English forefit and a 3-0 win for TnT
Not that it matters anyway


Offline Deeks

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2008, 07:01:37 PM »
We got a fair and square cut-arse. No FIFA bul..... can erase that. The whole world saw it on TV.

Offline Bakes

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2008, 07:37:16 PM »
Eman
this may be a silly question
but should that not result in an English forefit and a 3-0 win for TnT
Not that it matters anyway



Assuming we also didn't use 7 subs.  Not that it matters anyways, irrespective as to who 'won' the match still won't count.

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2008, 07:44:30 PM »
De whole damn thing was doomed to be debacle when I thought I was hearing things when the announcer call out some T&t players names on game day that was not on the final list released days before, just so, just so Tinto dropped, Guerra dropped...Jean-Michael is de 2nd golie.......steups...we expect anything else with Jackula.....but say wha...we football developing, just ask Frico and Youth Baller... ::)
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Offline Mose

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2008, 06:22:12 AM »
The match counts and is considered an A international: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7437052.stm
Quote
England victory allowed to stand

Fifa has announced England's 3-0 friendly win against Trinidad & Tobago will stand, despite a mistake over the number of substitutions used.

England made one more than the maximum allowed six changes, claiming they had received special dispensation to do so.

Fifa insists that is not the case but says it was a mistake by the referee and will not downgrade the status of the match from an A international.
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Offline sammy

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2008, 06:27:17 AM »
 :-\

i see ESPN have Defoe 1st goal against we as 1 of the 3 goals of the week.
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Offline Midknight

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2008, 06:36:01 AM »
The match counts and is considered an A international: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7437052.stm
Quote
England victory allowed to stand

Fifa has announced England's 3-0 friendly win against Trinidad & Tobago will stand, despite a mistake over the number of substitutions used.

England made one more than the maximum allowed six changes, claiming they had received special dispensation to do so.

Fifa insists that is not the case but says it was a mistake by the referee and will not downgrade the status of the match from an A international.
...

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Offline weary1969

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2008, 08:01:05 AM »
I guess iz d referee fault he got his info from here because f it eh here I read bout d 7777777777777 subs I heard about d 7777777777 subs on d radio more likely it was here. Is dis d ref 1st game dat he made such a mistake.

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Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: England match was not A level friendly!!!!
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2008, 08:14:13 AM »
We got a fair and square cut-arse. No FIFA bul..... can erase that. The whole world saw it on TV.

   Like you said: we stressin' over things that shouldn't even matter when it comes down to it.


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Re: England match was not A level friendly???
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2008, 11:54:01 AM »
The points for the England game would not have been accounted for in this month's version of the rankings. The cut off date is usually the thursday before publication...


Yes they should have. It is listed there as being played in the time period.
http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=eng/ranking/gender=m/index.html

Other matches from June 1 got points just for example:

01/06   SWE 0:1 (0:0) UKR   Friendly   531.00
01/06   POL 1:1 (1:1) DEN   Friendly   167.00



Maybe its because our friendly actually finished on Monday June 2 (GMT)?

Thats correct.

The UK is five hours ahead and the game would have finished after midnight, UK time.

 

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