Author Topic: Portos goal vs Arsenal In UCL (Read 6854 times)

Mock de Dread · « **on:** February 18, 2010, 06:14:40 AM »

Guys

what do you think about PC porto's goal in the UCL vs the gunners yesterday.

I agree that it is common practise to take a quick freekick but upon looking at the replays. I think that ref made a horrible decision in allowing the goal to stand

The replays clearly shows that

1) his back was to the play when the freekick was taken.
2) He was facing sol cambell impeading him from from getting involved in the play
3) He did not allow the keeper time to go back to his line for the play
4) at the time the gunners were arguing about he play, his focus was not on the free kick
5) Was it an intensional back pass? i dont think so the ball was running to the keeper and sol was escorting it but sols speed was faster than the ball and there was the slightest of touches on the run but not intensional

I totally agree that the gunners fell asleep but in all the confusion i think he could have used his better jugdment and call back the play. As was his performance against france he is clearly lacking in his judgements and should be barred from other major competitions.

just my opinion, probably a bit biased cause i like the gunners, what do you think ? bad karma for porto i think dey cut ass booked for 2nd round and no body will feel sorry

GunnerStunner · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2010, 06:45:28 AM »

wenger said it best

they go from a non goal socring position to a goal scoring one from the hands of the referee

what transpiered wasn't "wrong"

but everytime there has been a back pass foul the referee tells the players to play to his whistle

all those times you see players cramming the goal with a ten man wall etc

it was utter confusion, only two quick thinking porto players took advantage

the ref was never in control

remember when thierry started taking quick free kicks in the epl? very quickly the refs in the epl started showing the players the whistle stating that do nto take kick until i blow whistle

that is so the referee can ensure the defending team is ten yards etc etc

what ever seems the ref and fabianski went to the same school

FF · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2010, 07:16:38 AM »

Quote from: GunnerStunner on February 18, 2010, 06:45:28 AM

wenger said it best

they go from a non goal socring position to a goal scoring one from the hands of the referee

what transpiered wasn't "wrong"

but everytime there has been a back pass foul the referee tells the players to play to his whistle

all those times you see players cramming the goal with a ten man wall etc

it was utter confusion, only two quick thinking porto players took advantage

the ref was never in control

remember when thierry started taking quick free kicks in the epl? very quickly the refs in the epl started showing the players the whistle stating that do nto take kick until i blow whistle

that is so the referee can ensure the defending team is ten yards etc etc

what ever seems the ref and fabianski went to the same school

The referee only supposed to hold up play if the free kick takers ask for they ten yards, a man supposed to stand up on de ball one time... allyuh arsenal people is cry babies... good goal

Mock de Dread · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2010, 08:02:44 AM »

[/quote]

The referee only supposed to hold up play if the free kick takers ask for they ten yards, a man supposed to stand up on de ball one time... allyuh arsenal people is cry babies... good goal
[/quote]

agreed but the ref him self was not even watching the play, he was not in control,
who's to say if the guy didnt roll the ball to the attacker to take the strike
who's to say if the ball was in a dead ball position before the kick was taken
this was not the case, but the ref was in no position to oversee the play with his back being turned.

my point is " His back was turned against when the kick was taken, not even the ref was ready for the play he was saying something to sol cambell

gonna post a highlight link in a moment

Bourbon · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2010, 08:22:39 AM »

http://www.d1g.com/video/space/sports/show/?id=3596837

The players can request 10 yards but all that needed for a freekick to be taken quickly is the fact that the ref sees it. Players sometimes shout to the ref that they taking it and go ahead. Arsenal players switched off there...but...even when Sol cambell realised that they were taking it...and tried to get to it..the ref was in his way. I'd say they understandably could feel a legit grouse....but that whole sequence of events were fairly amateur all around.

Incidentally..this is the same ref that allowed:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/_8aOoFXBsG8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/_8aOoFXBsG8</a>

This

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/jxw1-Id91lQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/jxw1-Id91lQ</a>

and i think he was part of the controversy in the confed cup game with usa and brazil...

He developing a nice CV it seems.

FF · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2010, 08:23:01 AM »

Quote from: Mock de Dread on February 18, 2010, 08:02:44 AM

agreed but the ref him self was not even watching the play, he was not in control,
who's to say if the guy didnt roll the ball to the attacker to take the strike
who's to say if the ball was in a dead ball position before the kick was taken
this was not the case, but the ref was in no position to oversee the play with his back being turned.

my point is " His back was turned against when the kick was taken, not even the ref was ready for the play he was saying something to sol cambell

gonna post a highlight link in a moment

ah haaa... ok then this would be interesting to see... i thought he was in position to see, but i cyah say for sure

EDIT: In that picture above it look like the referee had a damn good view and was in full control to me, also look like is de Porto man wha really block off Sol

FF · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2010, 08:28:52 AM »

Quote from: Bourbon on February 18, 2010, 08:22:39 AM

The players can request 10 yards but all that needed for a freekick to be taken quickly is the fact that the ref sees it. Players sometimes shout to the ref that they taking it and go ahead. Arsenal players switched off there...but...even when Sol cambell realised that they were taking it...and tried to get to it..the ref was in his way. 50-50 i'd say...and fairly amateur all around. Incidentally..this is the same ref that allowed:

I think that is ah invalid point... that the referee block Sol... what Sol was trying to do would have been an illegal move anyway.... yes it happens all the time, but defenders supposed to move back 10 yards off a dead ball, thais de law...

What Sol and de keeper shoulda do was insteada arguing... get back in dey damn position.... and where de hell was the other nine arsenal men on de field??

Bourbon · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2010, 08:36:48 AM »

Quote from: FF on February 18, 2010, 08:28:52 AM

Quote from: Bourbon on February 18, 2010, 08:22:39 AM

The players can request 10 yards but all that needed for a freekick to be taken quickly is the fact that the ref sees it. Players sometimes shout to the ref that they taking it and go ahead. Arsenal players switched off there...but...even when Sol cambell realised that they were taking it...and tried to get to it..the ref was in his way. 50-50 i'd say...and fairly amateur all around. Incidentally..this is the same ref that allowed:

I think that is ah invalid point... that the referee block Sol... what Sol was trying to do would have been an illegal move anyway.... yes it happens all the time, but defenders supposed to move back 10 yards off a dead ball, thais de law...

What Sol and de keeper shoulda do was insteada arguing... get back in dey damn position.... and where de hell was the other nine arsenal men on de field??

If yuh watch de replay...yuh go realise dat de only arsenal defender around was Sol. Especially given the circumstances which de whole madness happened....he was the one escorting the ball back. And de attacking team can request 10 yards if they want....but if they decide to take it quickly....the ref needs to see. The only time the ref saw what was going on was when falco got the ball...which was after the kick was taken. Fabianski if yuh realise was trying to delay...which is why he held on to the ball. When he gave the ref the ball...then he got to his position....De man put down the ball...Sol realised he was goin and take it....tried to get at it....couldnt partially due to the ref....ball squared....goal.

dinho · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2010, 08:47:46 AM »

from a totally uninformed and unanalytical standpoint.. The ref is allowed some discretion in these kind of situations, rules are rules but nothing is set in stone..

The ref friggin wicked to let that goal stand.

It wasn't a straightforward free kick call, it was a controversial back pass inside the pk box. Man need time to argue that, he need to calm the situation, explain the call, let the defense get organized.

Referees regularly call back free kicks when they feel they are not yet 'ready' because they need to sort out the situation. I find he shoulda call that back.

Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$ · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2010, 09:28:49 AM »

Honestly is nothing illegal about the goal, but I eh like it one bit. I woulda feel grossly disappointed if ah ref allow ah goal like dat on my team. Say wha, all the gunners ha to do is take care of business at home and they good to go.

Touches · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2010, 09:32:36 AM »

Is a good goal and Fabianski just do shit for the 2nd time that night.

Get over it nah.

Campbell or Fabianski should hold the ball in they hand and stop the play...Take yuh yellow and take one for the team!

Ask for yuh 10 yards and set up.

Also Fabianski coulda even dive or stick a toe the ball trickle right past him...he wasnt even looking for it.

The goal good...Campbell pass back the ball...and Fabianski trap and pick up...when in doubt...clear it out.

Jayerson · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2010, 09:42:46 AM »

The two idiots in this situation was the ref and Fabianksi. This ref clearly doesn't have the belly to referee big games and seemed more worried about the crowd reaction than officiating a sensible game. Prior to that farcical moment, he called 'play on' when Rosicky was clealry fouled in the penalty area. I've seen them given and not given. Rosicky was playing for it but he was clearly fouled. Then for the ref who magically got bionic bionocular eye sight (when he moments before he couldn't see a thing) to see Sol's slight touch on the ball. Honestly, most refs would call that but he wasn't even facing the play when Porto took the free kick.

Additionally, most of being a good ref is judgment and this guy has shown often enough that he doesn't have it. Far less for the biggest games in football.

Daft Trini · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2010, 09:47:21 AM »

Just to note with that Liverfool video... Gerrard doh dive eh... he eh guilty of that shyte...

soccerman · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2010, 09:52:49 AM »

Playing this game as a youth player back in the day, our coach always used to remind us that if the opportunity arises to take a quick free kick before the wall is set, to take it. That is exactly what Porto did in this case, the Arsenal players lapsed in concentration and Porto took advantage of it. As far as I understand, the rule is you can request 10 yards or the ref and stop play and give you 10 based on his discretion. From what I saw, that looks like a legite goal if you ask me.

FF · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:13:06 AM »

I have to laugh at the Arsenal fans who BASICALLY saying the referee shoulda call back de goal because the Arsenal men wasn't ready

and these is professionals...

LOL

Madd Ras#13 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:20:16 AM »

Quote from: dinho on February 18, 2010, 08:47:46 AM

from a totally uninformed and unanalytical standpoint.. The ref is allowed some discretion in these kind of situations, rules are rules but nothing is set in stone..

The ref friggin wicked to let that goal stand.

It wasn't a straightforward free kick call, it was a controversial back pass inside the pk box. Man need time to argue that, he need to calm the situation, explain the call, let the defense get organized.

Referees regularly call back free kicks when they feel they are not yet 'ready' because they need to sort out the situation. I find he shoulda call that back.

what was controversial about dat back pass?lol both sol n de keeper look like some clowns...sol didnt need tuh touch de ball and de keeper cearly saw sol kicked it. clear cut back pass

Madd Ras#13 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:21:06 AM »

oh yea and watch arsenal geh wash in de return leg

GunnerStunner · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:27:48 AM »

very simply pu tthe ref was not in control of the game when the first porto man put the ball down and passed it

what if at the same time unseen by any officals an arsenal player punches a porto player?

the ref has to be in control for the whole game he slipped up there, it went from a position where porto had no goal scoring opportunity to one where they basically were given a goal

the ref cocked up after he made the call

elan · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:29:32 AM »

That ref on the take.

That link Bourbon post, watch that good. The ref RUN down dropsinski for the ball (where you ever see a ref run down a player for the ball? They does stand on the spot and the player have to carry or toss the ball to the ref), then he RUn quickly and hand the ball to the Porto player and he give Sol a shoulder check Watch the slow mo you will see him actually leaning into Sol Campbell.

dinho · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2010, 10:31:46 AM »

Quote from: Madd Ras#13 on February 18, 2010, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: dinho on February 18, 2010, 08:47:46 AM
from a totally uninformed and unanalytical standpoint.. The ref is allowed some discretion in these kind of situations, rules are rules but nothing is set in stone..

The ref friggin wicked to let that goal stand.

It wasn't a straightforward free kick call, it was a controversial back pass inside the pk box. Man need time to argue that, he need to calm the situation, explain the call, let the defense get organized.

Referees regularly call back free kicks when they feel they are not yet 'ready' because they need to sort out the situation. I find he shoulda call that back.

what was controversial about dat back pass?lol both sol n de keeper look like some clowns...sol didnt need tuh touch de ball and de keeper cearly saw sol kicked it. clear cut back pass

You are right about that... when I said controversial I mean to say I've never seen a free kick taken quickly from an indirect inside the PK box. Usually that call is always a situation that takes a lil while to sort out as it is rare and never a straightforward thing.. I am not saying it was an incorrect call at all, but there is subjectivity.

On another note, what about Klose's winner versus Fiorentina yesterday? I think that was one of the most offside goal I ever see in my life.

Mock de Dread · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2010, 11:52:25 AM »

This is actually a good pic,

however this was after the ball was passed, and the striker about to shoot the ref actually never saw the freekick being taken. This aint acceptable who's to say if the ball was rolling or if he even rolled the ball with his hands into the path of the striker. (didnt happen but he wasnt in a position to oversee the kick. He wasn't incontrol of the play, his back was against the freekick being taken. he is actually still signalling for the freekick spot

But fault gunners for falling asleep

JDB · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2010, 12:12:31 PM »

My take…

There was nothing controversial about the backpass. It was a clear backpass, everybody on the field knew it except for Fabianski. Campbell hang he head wondering what Fabianski was thinking.

If the ref block Sol that is a hard luck. It happens all the time.

It was a quick free-kick but Porto have a right to take it. How come Porto players could recognize that they have an advantageous position but nobody from Arsenal could. Fabianski was walking back, Campbell showed no urgency and Vermaelen was waiting for the rest of the side. IT was an indirect FK in the box, the whole side should have been streaming back to defend.

Arsenal get gamed but there was nothing wrong with the goal.

Madd Ras#13 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2010, 12:32:19 PM »

Quote from: dinho on February 18, 2010, 10:31:46 AM

Quote from: Madd Ras#13 on February 18, 2010, 10:20:16 AM
Quote from: dinho on February 18, 2010, 08:47:46 AM
from a totally uninformed and unanalytical standpoint.. The ref is allowed some discretion in these kind of situations, rules are rules but nothing is set in stone..

The ref friggin wicked to let that goal stand.

It wasn't a straightforward free kick call, it was a controversial back pass inside the pk box. Man need time to argue that, he need to calm the situation, explain the call, let the defense get organized.

Referees regularly call back free kicks when they feel they are not yet 'ready' because they need to sort out the situation. I find he shoulda call that back.

what was controversial about dat back pass?lol both sol n de keeper look like some clowns...sol didnt need tuh touch de ball and de keeper cearly saw sol kicked it. clear cut back pass

You are right about that... when I said controversial I mean to say I've never seen a free kick taken quickly from an indirect inside the PK box. Usually that call is always a situation that takes a lil while to sort out as it is rare and never a straightforward thing.. I am not saying it was an incorrect call at all, but there is subjectivity.

On another note, what about Klose's winner versus Fiorentina yesterday? I think that was one of the most offside goal I ever see in my life.

without ah doubt, even de ref. could have called dat offside without even bein in line with de play lol

elan · « **Reply #23 on:** February 18, 2010, 01:51:20 PM »

Quote from: JDB on February 18, 2010, 12:12:31 PM

My take…

There was nothing controversial about the backpass. It was a clear backpass, everybody on the field knew it except for Fabianski. Campbell hang he head wondering what Fabianski was thinking.

If the ref block Sol that is a hard luck. It happens all the time.

It was a quick free-kick but Porto have a right to take it. How come Porto players could recognize that they have an advantageous position but nobody from Arsenal could. Fabianski was walking back, Campbell showed no urgency and Vermaelen was waiting for the rest of the side. IT was an indirect FK in the box, the whole side should have been streaming back to defend.

Arsenal get gamed but there was nothing wrong with the goal.

The ref actively screened Sol. Sol tried to move and the ref stepped into him, leaning into him screening him from stepping in fron the ball. Watch the ref right foot.

How do yo explain the ref hustling the play. He ran to get the ball when he should be standing on the spot of the infringement, he then quickly handed the ball to the Porto player, and proceeded to block Sol.
The ref was involved in active play.

kicker · « **Reply #24 on:** February 18, 2010, 01:58:35 PM »

The ref didn't actually see the freekick being taken- The ball could have been moving when kicked i.e. illegal...the ref couldn't even assess that. He shoulda called it back, not because the players weren't ready of course because the players don't have to be ready..... but because he himself (the ref) wasn't ready....not to mention he was obstructing the play to some extent.

Technically it was a good goal, but from a practical standpoint it was very very harsh, and a poor use of discretion by the ref, in my opinion.

GunnerStunner · « **Reply #25 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:52:00 PM »

Quote from: kicker on February 18, 2010, 01:58:35 PM

The ref didn't actually see the freekick being taken- The ball could have been moving when kicked i.e. illegal...the ref couldn't even assess that. He shoulda called it back, not because the players weren't ready of course because the players don't have to be ready..... but because he himself (the ref) wasn't ready....not to mention he was obstructing the play to some extent.

Technically it was a good goal, but from a practical standpoint it was very very harsh, and a poor use of discretion by the ref, in my opinion.

cosign

Blue · « **Reply #26 on:** February 18, 2010, 03:04:02 PM »

Quote from: kicker on February 18, 2010, 01:58:35 PM

The ref didn't actually see the freekick being taken- The ball could have been moving when kicked i.e. illegal...the ref couldn't even assess that. He shoulda called it back, not because the players weren't ready of course because the players don't have to be ready..... but because he himself (the ref) wasn't ready....not to mention he was obstructing the play to some extent.

Technically it was a good goal, but from a practical standpoint it was very very harsh, and a poor use of discretion by the ref, in my opinion.

I agree, poor use of discretion. The ref should have applied some common sense and called it back. Regardless of whether he was blocking Sol Campbell or not, the advantage gained by Porto was ridiculous relative to the minor nature of the infringement. It was virtually impossible for Arsenal to have men behind the ball so quickly for a free kick that was only a few yards out. If Campbell and Vermalen had lined up on the goalline (as technically they would have had to), it would have made very little difference - in a situation like that you need 7 or 8 men on the goalline.

Fabianski was not at fault. The ref asked him for the ball, he handed it over. He didnt hand it to the Porto player, who was hounding him. He handed it to the ref. Any player would have done it, not just Fabianski.

And by the way, this is completely different to other examples that have been cited (eg. Henry vs Chelsea) where walls were in place, but the players were jus lapsing.

Anyway Arsenal is shit.

Jay10 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 18, 2010, 03:58:15 PM »

Quote from: kicker on February 18, 2010, 01:58:35 PM

The ref didn't actually see the freekick being taken- The ball could have been moving when kicked i.e. illegal...the ref couldn't even assess that. He shoulda called it back, not because the players weren't ready of course because the players don't have to be ready..... but because he himself (the ref) wasn't ready....not to mention he was obstructing the play to some extent.

Technically it was a good goal, but from a practical standpoint it was very very harsh, and a poor use of discretion by the ref, in my opinion.

The linesman probably saw the ball being spotted etc. What he could not call though, was if it was spotted in the correct position...cuz he would have been much farther away.
I think the goal should not have been givenfroom a neutral perspective. But, if it had been the other way around, Im sure people would have been saying differeent things.

sammy · « **Reply #28 on:** February 18, 2010, 04:17:21 PM »

Quote from: Jayerson on February 18, 2010, 09:42:46 AM

.

Additionally, most of being a good ref is judgment and this guy has shown often enough that he doesn't have it. Far less for the biggest games in football.

wha big games u talking bout?

anyhow, as much as i hate arsenal, i feel it for allyuh...is real hard luck.

With regards to offside, was the ball played to a player in front of the free kick, or did the goal scorer run on to it?

Mango Chow! · « **Reply #29 on:** February 18, 2010, 11:23:57 PM »

Quote from: Ryan on February 18, 2010, 03:04:02 PM

Quote from: kicker on February 18, 2010, 01:58:35 PM
The ref didn't actually see the freekick being taken- The ball could have been moving when kicked i.e. illegal...the ref couldn't even assess that. He shoulda called it back, not because the players weren't ready of course because the players don't have to be ready..... but because he himself (the ref) wasn't ready....not to mention he was obstructing the play to some extent.

Technically it was a good goal, but from a practical standpoint it was very very harsh, and a poor use of discretion by the ref, in my opinion.

I agree, poor use of discretion. The ref should have applied some common sense and called it back. Regardless of whether he was blocking Sol Campbell or not, the advantage gained by Porto was ridiculous relative to the minor nature of the infringement. It was virtually impossible for Arsenal to have men behind the ball so quickly for a free kick that was only a few yards out. If Campbell and Vermalen had lined up on the goalline (as technically they would have had to), it would have made very little difference - in a situation like that you need 7 or 8 men on the goalline.

Fabianski was not at fault. The ref asked him for the ball, he handed it over. He didnt hand it to the Porto player, who was hounding him. He handed it to the ref. Any player would have done it, not just Fabianski.

And by the way, this is completely different to other examples that have been cited (eg. Henry vs Chelsea) where walls were in place, but the players were jus lapsing.

Anyway Arsenal is shit.

.....a smarter goalkeeper, having possession of the ball as fabianski did, woulda jes' turn he back (with ball in hand) and start walking back to his goal line (while feigning urgency) and lobbed the ball in the general direction of the infraction. Even if he didn't do that ONE of his damned defenders was supposed to stand up on the damned ball.

I do feel, though, that regardless of how it differed from thierry henry's (now trademark) quickly taken FK's, with or without a wall, henry knew he could take the free-kick whenever he wanted and didn't have to wait for no whistle. The Porto players knew and did the same. Nobody has to wait until the referee is "in control" of the game or is in "good view" of the ball. Obviously, not even the ref.