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Offline Conquering Lion

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2013, 01:56:15 PM »


Good post... hits on everything I've been saying and everthing as I understand it to be  :beermug:

[/quote]

Nice try.....but doh try dat Bakes...lol

The simple question posed to you was ...."What do you know about it and what is your input?"

It seems to be none because no solid answer was given. I guess when all else fails just argue on a point of law, because all we got was u bouncing off other posts without really adding anything.

It's okay to say "I don't know" every now and then u know. Your opinions might be respected more when u do have something of substance to add.

.....And doh even try and come back wid yuh usual tactic of more legalese and the "you talking shit" approach.

We fire de old set ah managers we had wukkin..and iz ah new group we went and we bring in. And if the goods we require de new managers not supplying, when election time come back round iz new ones we bringin. For iz one ting about my people I can guarantee..They will never ever vote party b4 country

Offline Bitter

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2013, 02:42:26 PM »
My problem with Obamacare is that is an insurance program and not a healthcare program. But I understand the political constraints to creating any sort of new gov't run healthcare system (even though it have medicare, and tricare).

My problems with the republican opposition to the plan are:
1. Conservative groups like The Heritage Foundation thought it was a swell program until Obama suggested it.
2. Nobody was complaining about death panels when Mitt Romney did it.
3. They have never put forward an alternative.

The bigger problem of health care costs needs to be addressed sooner or later. Men like Kounty and OutsideMan better hope they never need to head to the hospital. For Example:
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-09-16/national/42105019_1_er-doctor-appendicitis-physician-assistant

This person was in the hospital for one day.
The cost?
Quote
The full tab for an ER visit, a CT scan, a dose of IV antibiotics and hospital admission came to more than $30,000
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline Bakes

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2013, 03:04:05 PM »
Nice try.....but doh try dat Bakes...lol

The simple question posed to you was ...."What do you know about it and what is your input?"

It seems to be none because no solid answer was given. I guess when all else fails just argue on a point of law, because all we got was u bouncing off other posts without really adding anything.

It's okay to say "I don't know" every now and then u know. Your opinions might be respected more when u do have something of substance to add.

.....And doh even try and come back wid yuh usual tactic of more legalese and the "you talking shit" approach.



This will be my last response to you, because it becoming increasingly clear to me that you on some contrarian agenda.  This is what lefty actually asked... maybe if yuh'd read it yuh wouldn't be here talking out yuh ass about what I did or didn't say.

Quote
Yes ah know it have real info out there but would like to hear from people livin out there....some seem to love it, some hate it .............wais d deal wit dat

I responded and told him nobody could really talk from experience since it ent gone into practice yet.  I further told him that most who hate it either rich or ignorant.  So how did I NOT address his questions?

Kounty then started the ball rolling by saying what he sees as wrong with the law... I responded to Kounty based on the objections he raised.  You then see it fit to jump in to tell me that I never answered the question... while offering very little by way of substance yuhself.  The best part is that you accusing me of "bouncing off other posts"... yeah, in real life that is called having a discussion, by responding to what others said.  If you feel that my responses indicate that I don't know what I'm talking about then feel free to point it out.  Otherwise just hush yuh ass and stop looking for contradiction where there is none.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2013, 05:27:08 PM »
Wha'ppen... whey OutsideMan, Conquering Lion and the other critics?



Obamacare’s strange bedfellows
By E.J. Dionne Jr.


Published: September 22

COLUMBUS, Ohio

It was the last thing the Rev. Tim Ahrens expected to do during a chat in his book-lined office at the historic First Congregational Church here: He expressed admiration for Gov. John Kasich.

Ahrens is a progressive social activist whose house of worship has deep roots in the old Social Gospel movement. He has demonstrated and organized against Ohio’s conservative governor and, in 2011, even gave a kind of counter State of the State message outside the Capitol while Kasich was presenting his plans inside.

Yet Kasich, a one-time scourge of labor unions who was a top lieutenant in Newt Gingrich’s revolution in the 1990s, has endeared himself to liberal and low-income Ohioans by insisting, loudly and incessantly, that his state participate in the Medicaid expansion under Obama­care. An unapologetic conservative is fighting the tea party and his own Republican legislature because he thinks the less privileged people of Ohio deserve health coverage.

Thus Ahrens’s surprising confession last week, offered with a rueful smile: “One of the things I admire about John Kasich — yes, I did say ‘admire’ — is that if he connects to an individual who is hurting, he will respond.” And having responded on the Medicaid issue, Kasich has gone all in. “He has not wavered from that place,” said Ahrens, who chairs the Central Ohio Medicaid Expansion Coalition. “He has become a crusader. He will not let go of this.”

Kasich’s witness is important as an expression of his commitment to a form of evangelical Christianity that places a high priority on the poor. The governor told the Wall Street Journal last month of an encounter with a state legislator who disagreed with him on Medicaid. At heaven’s door, Kasich preached, St. Peter is “probably not going to ask you much about what you did about keeping government small. But he is going to ask you what you did for the poor.”

At a moment when the Beltway wing of the GOP is on the verge of shaking the economy to its foundations in an effort to block Obama­care, there’s also a political lesson to be drawn from Ohio and from other states where Republican governors have embraced the expansion of Medicaid, which is a central component of the Affordable Care Act.

Just last week, Rick Snyder, Michigan’s Republican governor, signed a Medicaid expansion bill with an explanation that President Obama himself would endorse. “This is about the health of fellow Michiganders,” Snyder said. In Pennsylvania, Gov. Tom Corbett once excoriated Obamacare but said he’d go along with a modified expansion. Another half-dozen Republican governors have also supported enlarging Medicaid, among them Chris Christie in New Jersey, Jan Brewer in Arizona and Susana Martinez in New Mexico.

These chief executives usually follow the party line in being critical of the health law in principle. But they have responsibilities that the radical ideologues in Washington don’t have — to their local hospitals, to their economies and, yes, to their constituents among the working poor who now lack insurance. They understand the difference between “Obamacare” as a right-wing bogeyman and the Affordable Care Act as a reality.

Here in Ohio, another of Kasich’s new allies on Medicaid is Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman. The first African American to lead the city, Coleman proudly describes himself as a “pro-business Democrat,” a coalition builder and an advocate of school reform. “Kasich and I don’t agree on too much,” Coleman, the 14-year incumbent, told me. “But on this one, he’s right.”

Like many Americans in the middle of the country, the mayor finds Washington’s current antics entirely strange.He’s especially impatient with ideologues whose views are based on a sweeping anti-government philosophy instead of pragmatic thinking about what efficiently run government can achieve.

“Those people who talk that way have no real-life experiences,” Coleman said. The mayor then issued an invitation to a hypothetical congressional dogmatist — “Mr. Philosophizer,” he called him — to walk his city’s neighborhoods with him to learn about the problems of flesh-and-blood citizens.

It’s not clear that Kasich will win his fight on behalf of such citizens. Conservatives in his legislature worry as much about tea-party challenges as congressional Republicans do and could continue to block expansion. If that happens, Ahrens said that advocates of broader Medicaid coverage are preparing to place the issue on Ohio’s ballot. Current polls suggest it would win.

Tea-party “philosophizers” in Congress really should accept Coleman’s invitation. Seen from the ground, expanding health coverage is at once a practical and compassionate goal. Practicality and compassion are both missing in the manufactured rage against the abstraction known as “Obamacare.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ej-dionne-obamacares-strange-bedfellows/2013/09/22/6b077abc-23bc-11e3-ad0d-b7c8d2a594b9_story.html

Offline OutsideMan

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2013, 05:56:16 PM »
Wait nah. Bakes...I now only see that you hail me out.  You feel because no one debating, they agree with you or what???  Yuh feel you're the first person to present talking-points on this shady plan???  Are you for real??? hahahahahaha

Ummm...Breda, I already stated my piece last week on this topic.  There's nothing more for me to say or add regardless of how many Democrat or Republican talking points you present here to try to sell people on the plan. 

You can re-read my viewpoint on this topic by checking-out my prior comments on this thread...or the COUNTLESS other internet 'debates' and face-to-face debates I've had in the past 4 years, and personal discussions I've had with my local members of US Congress and local City Council (both Dems and Repubs) et al.

Again...Refer upwards on this thread --- my talk done.  Nothing more to add, so go sell this crookery elsewhere.    ;)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 06:18:53 PM by OutsideMan »
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2013, 07:13:08 PM »
Wait nah. Bakes...I now only see that you hail me out.  You feel because no one debating, they agree with you or what???  Yuh feel you're the first person to present talking-points on this shady plan???  Are you for real??? hahahahahaha

Ummm...Breda, I already stated my piece last week on this topic.  There's nothing more for me to say or add regardless of how many Democrat or Republican talking points you present here to try to sell people on the plan. 

You can re-read my viewpoint on this topic by checking-out my prior comments on this thread...or the COUNTLESS other internet 'debates' and face-to-face debates I've had in the past 4 years, and personal discussions I've had with my local members of US Congress and local City Council (both Dems and Repubs) et al.

Again...Refer upwards on this thread --- my talk done.  Nothing more to add, so go sell this crookery elsewhere.    ;)

If I wanted your opinion I would have opened my ass and farted... doh flatter yuhself.

Offline OutsideMan

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2013, 07:37:42 PM »
Wait nah. Bakes...I now only see that you hail me out.  You feel because no one debating, they agree with you or what???  Yuh feel you're the first person to present talking-points on this shady plan???  Are you for real??? hahahahahaha

Ummm...Breda, I already stated my piece last week on this topic.  There's nothing more for me to say or add regardless of how many Democrat or Republican talking points you present here to try to sell people on the plan. 

You can re-read my viewpoint on this topic by checking-out my prior comments on this thread...or the COUNTLESS other internet 'debates' and face-to-face debates I've had in the past 4 years, and personal discussions I've had with my local members of US Congress and local City Council (both Dems and Repubs) et al.

Again...Refer upwards on this thread --- my talk done.  Nothing more to add, so go sell this crookery elsewhere.    ;)

If I wanted your opinion I would have opened my ass and farted... doh flatter yuhself.

You know that's what you pretty much do from your mouth every time you speak, right? 

Anyhows, you just like a ol' woman who masturbates while she on her period...yuh get yuhself ketch RED HANDED.  ;)

Now go forth and resume your typical arguing by yourself. 
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2013, 08:24:26 PM »
GTFOH with that weak, corny-ass shit.  If I'm "arguing by [my]self" why yuh responding?  Not that I would waste my time "arguing" with a half-wit like you anyways.

Offline OutsideMan

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2013, 08:31:59 PM »
GTFOH with that weak, corny-ass shit.  If I'm "arguing by [my]self" why yuh responding?  Not that I would waste my time "arguing" with a half-wit like you anyways.

Ohhhhhh...I see you got your panties up-in-a-bunch with that one.   :rotfl:
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Offline OutsideMan

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2013, 08:32:22 PM »
AH LOVE IT!!!!!!!!   :rotfl:
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Offline ribbit

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2013, 07:51:51 AM »
whether obamacare is in force or not is completely irrelevant. watching businesses (both small and large) going through contortions to avoid obamacare speaks volumes.

Offline Conquering Lion

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2013, 12:27:25 PM »
Wha'ppen... whey OutsideMan, Conquering Lion and the other critics?

Right here watching your contortions with amusement.

However, still waiting on YOUR opinion on the healthcare changes that are about to go into effect...pros, cons, $$ figures etc., and what you think is the best approach for the consumer to take.

We fire de old set ah managers we had wukkin..and iz ah new group we went and we bring in. And if the goods we require de new managers not supplying, when election time come back round iz new ones we bringin. For iz one ting about my people I can guarantee..They will never ever vote party b4 country

Offline Bakes

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2013, 07:44:11 PM »
Right here watching your contortions with amusement.

However, still waiting on YOUR opinion on the healthcare changes that are about to go into effect...pros, cons, $$ figures etc., and what you think is the best approach for the consumer to take.

That's the problem... you "watching... with amusement", when yuh should be watching with discernment.  Yuh might actually learn something, or in the least, see that the "answers" yuh waiting on have already been posted.

Pros and cons?  I don't see too many cons... and have already addressed the pros:

Quote
(a) empirical evidence has shown that most high-cost procedures are due to preventable medical issues.  Therefore it stands to reason that if you intervene and treat these ailments earlier, you don't have to opt for the high-cost procedures.  In addition to this, even when the procedures aren't high-cost, (b) the sheer numbers of uninsured being treated for preventable illnesses is a huge strain on the system.  If you treat these preventable illnesses then (at least in theory) you reduce the numbers of uninsured who show up for treatment.

Huge con is the financial burden on the struggling middle-class.  I discussed the penalty fee beginning at $95 up to 1% of your AGI.  BUT... I also countered these cons with pros:

Quote
Your co-pays are determined by the insurer, so it stands to reason that other insurers, even others participating in the Exchange will offer different pricing.  All this and we haven't even addressed whether you're eligible for tax credits and subsidies...

Under the ACA this will be no different, just the numbers of individuals presenting for these high-cost Tx's is expected to drop....

The goal has always been to reduce the overall cost of healthcare and the related impact on the economy (cost, lost productivity etc.) in general.



More Pros... or really the same basic message over and over again.  Somehow it continues to elude you.

Quote
At least this way, from an Economics model standpoint, it makes sense to try and reduce the overall burden on the system by aiming at improved healthcare for all, which then in theory will reduce costs for all.

How would I know what is the "best approach for the consumer to take"?  First off I am no expert.  Secondly there's no one size fits all.  What's best for the individual has to be determined on an individual basis.  I gave MY OWN personal experience of being without health care, and spoke about when I absolutely needed it the most I was fortunate to have health care:

Quote
Thank God the school had forced all students to carry insurance... which I was paying $750 a year for.  That's $62 a month... a bargain now, but quite an expense to me back then.  Even so, that four-year period was the longest in my life that I actually had health insurance... matched by the current streak I'm on, having had continuous health insurance since June, 2009.

The implication is clear... but like you need tiny spoonfuls to digest what man saying.  Without that school mandated policy I wouldn't have had health care, and likely would not have been able to pay for treatment to repair the ligaments in my ankles.  What's so difficult or "contortion[ist]" about that??  Again, you not interested in any kinda discussion, you just looking for contention.

Offline kounty

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2013, 06:38:28 AM »
so actually the rates were based on the silver plan like I heard Obamacare premium rates lower than expected -
Quote
"The benchmark is the second-lowest cost "silver" policy for 48 states, upon which federal subsidies are based."
[/url] and now that we have most of the details I still don't think we will be any wiser. skeptics still say nothing is changing and it is a big chainup to get more people to buy insurance. actually there is penalty now for the poor people. they going to pull this extra money out of their arses instead of buying beer and cigarettes. cyah criticize obama cuz he on "we team".  or we cyah agree with the other team who must not want us to have this thing - so it must be good for us.
Bakes maybe you could help me understand if the law add anything in terms of patient rights or limiting the ability of insurance providers to deny claims (so many stories i hear about patients reaching some limit on spending with their insurance; still in lifelong debt even with insurance). prices still high for crappy insurance. still higher for good insurance.  Lefty what were you thinking "good", "bad" or "in-between" might look like?

Offline lefty

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2013, 07:19:14 AM »
Lefty what were you thinking "good", "bad" or "in-between" might look like?

from what I understand of the US health system...which is limited.........people seem to pay through the nose for health care, good would have been a public option precluding the need for insurance, but I guess the money spinners in washington woulda have ah conniption wit that one...so failing that I would assume that it would have encompass measures that would at least remove some of the heavy cost burden on citzens that needed it to have health care...........
I pity the fool....

Offline Toppa

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2013, 10:48:53 AM »
Allyuh talking about one of my favorite subjects; healthcare. I have been in the healthcare space for over 12 years as a consultant and working for one of the big US health insurance companies. I actually worked on an insurance company's strategy team when Obamacare was passed. Say what you want about the law, but status quo was unsustainable. The biggest misconception I heard from people was they doh want to pay for the uninsured, when in fact is under the US system, they were paying for the uninsured every time their premiums increased. One of my biggest issues with the law is it's really insurance reform more than healthcare reform because it doesn't do much to address the drivers of healthcare costs.

For the insurance industry there is a love-hate with the law, they got the individual mandate (everyone must have coverage) which they lobbied hard for, but also got a Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) restriction. MLR is the ratio of claims paid to premium dollars received. For example a plan running at 90% means that $0.90 cents of every $1 in premiums pays medical costs, which leaves $0.10 for company expenses and profit. Obviously the lower the MLR, the more money for the company and a plan running over 100% is costing them money. The law says that carriers must spend a minimum of 85%/80% (large groups/small groups & individuals) of premiums on medical costs. If MLRs come in lower, the plans must provide a rebate, if they come in higher they lose profit margin. Hence you are seeing carrier diversifying into all other aspects of healthcare.

For individuals its a mixed bag with positives like simplification of underwriting rules, removal of denial for pre-existing conditions, allowing kids to be covered on parental plans up to age 26, creating a minimum level of coverage, actual innovation around plans and services etc. However that may be offset by possible rising cost of plans, increase in shitty plan designs (e.g. high deductible plans), employers dropping coverage or reducing benefits, more difficult access to doctors, docs dropping Medicare and/or Medicaid patients etc.

With the exchanges, the stuff i am seeing is that generally the premiums are coming in lower than expected (geographically dependent). However, if yuh didn't have insurance before, have to spend $100/$200 a month is a new expense. Since the penalty for not having insurance starts at $95/ individual for the first year (or 1% of eligible income), I expect to see folks do the math and realize that paying the penalty cheaper than insurance and pick up insurance only when they need it (since companies can no longer deny for preexisting conditions).

What Walmart is doing is essentially making their employees the government's problem. Part-timers make less, become eligible for Medicaid or subsidies for insurance on the exchanges. To be honest, Walmart wasn't providing any big set of coverage for employees in the first place and like other companies with low paid staff, the coverage they did provide probably didn't meet the minimum levels under the law. By changing work eligibility, they reduce the number of people eligible for employer coverage, provide compliant plans for a smaller group of people (managing costs) and let their employees get coverage courtesy of the US taxpayer.

Insurance carriers don't want their prized large customers dumping employees onto public exchanges because fighting for them one at a time is very hard and they won't ever get back the volume. So what you will see is a rise in private exchanges run by large consultants like AonHewitt/Towers Watson, private companies like Liazon/Bloom Health, and insurance companies like United/Aetna/BCBS. Essentially what they are saying to employers is don't get rid of employees and benefits, but send them here, given them a fixed contribution (just like a 401K), and let them choose a plan. If they choose one that's less than the benefit, they keep the change; if it's more they pay the difference. The employer gets to cut their benefits budget, reduce HR staff,and still say they offer a range of benefits with employee choice; the carrier gets to keep a client or has a reasonable shot at keeping a portion of the business or win new business; the employee loses that nice HMO with the $20 copay and probably pays more a month for a new plan with a $4,000 deductible they have to hit before the plan pays 70% of costs...

Our former CEO used to say that it's a mess, but the government won't let it fail. They will make changes and amendments in order to make things work. At this point repealing it is nonsense (the Republicans are putting on a show), the way things were before the law are probably worse that where we are now, but few believe that the current state is the final state. The Republicians would probably get further with proposing sensible improvements to the law. Right now, no one knows how things will shake out in 2014, the established players are being really cautious and there are a lot of start-ups and entrepreneurs trying to use that caution to their advantage. Should be interesting for a while.

Woah! Thanks.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2013, 01:05:30 PM »
so actually the rates were based on the silver plan like I heard and now that we have most of the details I still don't think we will be any wiser. skeptics still say nothing is changing and it is a big chainup to get more people to buy insurance. actually there is penalty now for the poor people. they going to pull this extra money out of their arses instead of buying beer and cigarettes. cyah criticize obama cuz he on "we team".  or we cyah agree with the other team who must not want us to have this thing - so it must be good for us.
Bakes maybe you could help me understand if the law add anything in terms of patient rights or limiting the ability of insurance providers to deny claims (so many stories i hear about patients reaching some limit on spending with their insurance; still in lifelong debt even with insurance). prices still high for crappy insurance. still higher for good insurance.  Lefty what were you thinking "good", "bad" or "in-between" might look like?

Again, with tax credits and subsidies the economic impact is supposed to be mitigated.  As for denial of claims... I don't know specifically, but I know that they can't deny you coverage based on pre-existing conditions as they was doing right and left before.

Offline grimm01

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2013, 09:49:42 PM »
so actually the rates were based on the silver plan like I heard Obamacare premium rates lower than expected -
Quote
"The benchmark is the second-lowest cost "silver" policy for 48 states, upon which federal subsidies are based."
[/url] and now that we have most of the details I still don't think we will be any wiser. skeptics still say nothing is changing and it is a big chainup to get more people to buy insurance. actually there is penalty now for the poor people. they going to pull this extra money out of their arses instead of buying beer and cigarettes. cyah criticize obama cuz he on "we team".  or we cyah agree with the other team who must not want us to have this thing - so it must be good for us.
Bakes maybe you could help me understand if the law add anything in terms of patient rights or limiting the ability of insurance providers to deny claims (so many stories i hear about patients reaching some limit on spending with their insurance; still in lifelong debt even with insurance). prices still high for crappy insurance. still higher for good insurance.  Lefty what were you thinking "good", "bad" or "in-between" might look like?

I disagree with your statement about nothing changing; it's quite the opposite. This industry has changed fundamentally in the 4 years since ACA passed and there's no going back:
  • Traditionally insurance carriers and providers were adversaries, now hospitals partnering with insurance carriers to form Accountable Care Organizations
  • Stakeholders now implementing payment reform where docs get paid if you actually get better instead of the traditional fee for service (where they get paid for doing stuff regardless of whether you get better or dead)
  • Hospitals starting to offer their own insurance plans
  • ACA provided billions in funding for technology to improve the connectivity, access to data, info sharing, transparency etc. Technology companies that didn't exist 4-5 years ago (e.g. Companies like ZocDoc, Castlight, PracticeFusion) wouldn't be possible without the ACA focus on the consumer and technological transformation
  • Insurers now realizing that the main customer should be the member/patient and not the Head of Comp and Benefits at the employer


The government can't really take away a company's ability to challenge claims. However, the law does require more transparency when it comes to denial of claims - companies have to provide specific reasons for denials, there is now a prescribed appeals process and everyone has the opportunity to get an independent review of the denial. The law also does away with annual and lifetime limits on essential health benefits.

As for the chain up of poor people, the law allows for the expansion of Medicaid eligibility to people who earn less that 138% of the Federal Poverty Level - about $15,856 for an individual and ~ $27,000 for a family of 3. The Feds will pick up the bill in full for the newly eligible for 3 years and then gradually cut back funding to 90% by 2020, with the states picking up the difference. Unfortunately some governors have opposed expanding Medicaid in their states because of their opposition to Obamacare. The sad thing is most of these states are the same ones with the highest rates of uninsured, unemployment, obesity and poverty and need it most.

For the poor people who earn too much for Medicaid, they are eligible for subsidies to help cover some of the insurance premiums. Folks earning up to 400% of the FPL and without access to an affordable plan at work may be eligible for assistance through the exchange. Premiums are unaffordable if they are more than 9.5% of household income. 400% FPL is an individual making $45,960 or a family of four earning $94,200. Keep in mind the median US household income is about $51,000.

As for your question about good/bad/in-between coverage, the answer really depends on your situation. A young healthy person could get by with an exchange bronze plan, but that would not work for a 50 year old male with a family, diabetes and heart disease. Your choice of plan would be influenced by your income, health history, family and employment situation.

You may think this thing is a big gain for insurance companies, and it is based on the raw numbers, but I can tell you the companies aren't exactly in their glee:
  • The MLR restrictions limit their upside (see my first post)
  • The uninsured are expected to be high risk individuals who will utilize a disproportionately high amount of services in the first 12-18 months of coverage as they "catch up" on all the care they have missed out on over the years. So a carrier that picks up a lot of them can actually run a risk of losing money on them
  • Large companies are the bread and butter for carriers as they can lock down large stable populations in one swoop. If companies start putting their employees in private exchanges, it means carriers can no longer count on retaining these big blocs. The per member acquisitions costs of signing up a company that brings in >6K employees and family members is lower than it is to pick up individual policyholders one at a time

Offline Bakes

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2013, 10:16:53 PM »
Great post Grimm.

Offline ribbit

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2013, 12:47:42 PM »
is de website problems overblown or justified? curious how de forumites in de states are faring.

Offline grimm01

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2013, 01:40:29 PM »
is de website problems overblown or justified? curious how de forumites in de states are faring.

Nah the website was a REAL mess; up to last week I checked and wasn't getting through - remember it launch October 1st. I spoke to someone at my company and he was telling me the data shows that the website is a massive bottleneck. It seems to be clearing up somewhat now. I just did a check for plans using Georgia as an example (they don't have a state run exchange, the Feds run it) and it went through and gave me options and pricing. I didn't bother testing the enrollment functionality, so that part might still be broken.

I get how setting up something like this could be complicated, but at a time when college students launching businesses from dorm rooms with 6-12months development time, there is no excuse for how hard that thing failed. People need to lose their wok over that.

But the site will get fixed, it will be up and running, and as much as Republicans posture, they not taking down the law over a website.

Offline grimm01

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2013, 09:47:52 AM »
The Washington Post reporting today that in the first 24 hours of going live the healthcare.gov website had 4.7M visitors and only 6 people get through to enroll.

Offline doc

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2013, 10:06:06 AM »
The Washington Post reporting today that in the first 24 hours of going live the healthcare.gov website had 4.7M visitors and only 6 people get through to enroll.
What does that mean?
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Offline D.H.W

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Re: Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2013, 10:07:36 AM »
The Washington Post reporting today that in the first 24 hours of going live the healthcare.gov website had 4.7M visitors and only 6 people get through to enroll.

Lol talk about gridlock
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Offline grimm01

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2013, 11:01:07 AM »
The Washington Post reporting today that in the first 24 hours of going live the healthcare.gov website had 4.7M visitors and only 6 people get through to enroll.
What does that mean?

They claim only 6 people were able to successfully enroll during the first 24 hours. Another 242 were successful on the second day. Apparently the numbers came from the minutes of a meeting at CMS- They run Medicare and Medicaid and oversaw development of the site. Problems such as website freezes and crashes, slow loading, errors prevented people from completing the process.

Offline kounty

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2013, 12:49:18 PM »
now that the rhetoric lul down a little lefty, I wanted to update you on the word on the street (i think the original intent of your thread). well...nothing much different from when you first ask the question except for the website fiasco. I have a few very liberal fb friends who posted that they sign up for it and it was utter garbage - on average having to cut their coverage or paying double what they used to pay for the same coverage (as companies subsidized about half the cost in general). I know quite a few lower income liberals who are like - i'll pay the $95 fine for not having coverage ~ rush limbaugh says that the gov't could only collect that by deducting it from your tax return ~ but either way with all the problems, I really don't think there will be a fine for 2014...I mean, how many days left?

Offline grimm01

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2015, 09:10:33 PM »
Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but I wanted to post the following article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-12/what-happens-when-republicans-realize-obamacare-was-written-for-them-


What Happens When Republicans Realize Obamacare Was Written for Them?

Luis Lang, a 49-year-old smoker and diabetic from South Carolina, is going to go blind unless he figures out how to pay for expensive eye treatment.

Lang is a self-employed, uninsured handyman who stopped working due to his poor vision. He’s also a Republican who decided not to purchase Obamacare and prided himself on being able to pay his own medical bills, but also assumed that there would be some kind of government help in the event of an emergency, the Charlotte Observer reported Tuesday. He missed the enrollment period and wouldn’t have qualified for subsidies because, since he’s not working, he makes too little money. But he still makes too much money for Medicaid, which South Carolina did not expand.

“As each day goes by my vision get worst,” Lang, who apologized for grammatical mistakes due to his deteriorating vision, wrote on his GoFund Me page. “And if I do go blind it will take [surgery] to get my vision bac[k] if they can.” Since the Observer story was published Lang has received over $500 in donations, including several from Obamacare supporters chiding him for not signing up for the health care law. (Example: “I really hope that you get your operation soon so that you can go back to work and hopefully understand why the ACA was passed in the first place.”)

“I drive a 2009 Mazda, and I’m just trying to make it in my little apartment and not be on government assistance.”
Erin Meredith

Lang’s story is the kind of personal health care anecdote that says something larger about the role the Affordable Care Act plays in people’s political and personal lives. During ACA's first enrollment period, there was a lot of debate over the validity of several Obamacare horror stories: ads featuring men and women who lost their doctors or whose premiums were suddenly unaffordable because of the new law.

But after nearly two years, and one Supreme Court case threatening to gut federal subsidies, a new kind of horror story is emerging: one in which people who are politically opposed to the law see how much it could help them. Instead of conservatives pointing to higher premiums and saying “I told you so,” it’s the left pointing to reports of financially vulnerable people the law was designed to protect.

In a February, for example, The Washington Post interviewed Erin Meredith, a “fifth-generation Republican” from Austin with two children. Meredith lost her insurance after her divorce and discovered that she had a rare medical condition, but her income qualified her for a $132 Obamacare subsidy, bringing her premium down to $89 a month. Like Lang, Meredith prided herself on not relying government assistance. Still, she signed up, and is now worried the Supreme Court will rule against the legality of her subsidy.

“I can still feed my kids and put gas in my car,” Meredith told The Post. “I’m not trying to go to Cancun or carry a Michael Kors bag. I drive a 2009 Mazda, and I’m just trying to make it in my little apartment and not be on government assistance.”

The best example of the conservative-turned-Obamacare-supporter phenomenon is James Webb, known on YouTube as Hot Lead retired. In a video published last month titled “This Tea Party Patriot May Vote For Hillary,” Webb—who said he’s voted for Republicans for 32 years and was a charter member of his local Tea Party Patriots chapter—said that he was thinking of voting for Hillary Clinton because Republicans want to repeal Obamacare. Because of the Affordable Care Act, Webb said, he was able to retire at the age of 50.

Webb's story was picked up by several left-leaning news sites, including Raw Story, Huffington Post, The Nation, Talking Points Memo, and Wonkette. And even though Webb said less than a week later that he “had a few days to think about it” and he wouldn’t be voting for Clinton, he responded to his critics by saying that he has an income and pays for health insurance—it’s subsidized, but not free. It’s worth noting that the Congressional Budget Office estimated in 2014 that Obamacare would reduce the workforce by 1.5 to 2 percent because people would “choose to supply less labor.” In other words, Obamacare makes it easier for people who were unable to leave their jobs to start a business, switch careers, or retire early, to leave their jobs.

The health care law was, in fact, designed to help people in those situations: people like Lang who lack employer insurance but have pre-existing conditions; or who, like Meredith, have low incomes; and people like Webb who want to retire early.

In the long run, however, these stories will likely do more to convince liberals that they’re right about Obamacare than change the hearts and minds of conservatives. The latest health tracking poll from the Kaiser Family Foundation found that 75 percent of Republicans have a somewhat or very unfavorable view of the health care law (compared to 16 percent of Democrats), and 38 percent think the law has hurt them (compared to only 8 percent of Democrats).

Lang is also unconvinced. He and his wife don’t blame the state for not expanding Medicaid, or themselves for waiting until illness struck to sign up for insurance. According to Helms they “blame President Obama and Congressional Democrats for passing a complex and flawed bill.”

“(My husband) should be at the front of the line because he doesn’t work and because he has medical issues,” Mary Lang, Luis’ wife, told the Charlotte Observer. “We call it the Not Fair Health Care Act.”

Offline weary1969

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Re: Obamacare is it good |bad | somewhere in between
« Reply #57 on: May 22, 2015, 12:19:53 PM »
We have Republicans in TNT. They are called UNC Supporters.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

 

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