Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: MEP on May 27, 2010, 04:31:36 AM
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Our new AG...take from it what you may.......
http://www.anandramlogan.com/thanks_to_digicell (http://www.anandramlogan.com/thanks_to_digicell)
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You are hereAnand's Collection / Thanks to Digicel
Thanks to Digicel
By anand - Posted on 07 April 2007
Could someone explain why Indian men are so scarce in advertisements? In a country where we’re hardly a minority the conspicuous absence is glaring and shocking. Is it that we have no purchasing power and companies can therefore comfortably ignore us with impunity?
This is one of the sorest points with the Indo-Trinidadian community and is often used or misused to buttress perceptions of and discussions on discrimination, alienation and marginalization. I am sick and fed up of hearing people complain about how interracial or mixed couples are always portrayed by reference to a non-Indian man. Women of all races (and yes, quite a lot of good looking Indian ones too boot) are frequently shown as partners or spouses of African, Mixed and White men but it is as if it is criminal offence to show them in a relationship with an Indian man. Small wonder it is used as ammunition and evidence by those who believe in sinister conspiracy theories about this being part of the attempt to assimilate or ‘douglarise’ us.
Indian men are relegated to the mandatory rum and roti advertisements or flour and oil. And of course, the Clico ad about the rural rice farmer ‘who knows where to go for good financial advice.’ The pot-belly, lethargic stereotype from the countryside features a lot but its bad advertising to show young good looking Indian guys in ads. We don’t go to gyms or play any sports and hence don’t look good enough to be associated with any product.
I was thrilled to see Dinesh Ramdhin and Ramnaresh Sarwan featuring in a Digicel advertisement with Chris Gayle on the cover of Air Caribbean’s magaizine. In fact, Digicel’s advertisements have been a breath of fresh air! Digicel seems to have discovered we exist and have broken with tradition by using Indian men in its ads. (Mind you, we are yet to feature in any of the ads with sexy girls whispering sweet nothings into the ears of their boyfriends-that might have been pushing it too far!) No company has given us such prominence in ads before – thank you, Digicel.
Compare Digicel to BMobile. Imagine the world cup advert with our prince, Brian Lara calling friends to play cricket with a youth on the beach does not contain a single Indian in it! I wonder if BMobile would have ever dared to run such an ad with only Indians in it? If it did, I wonder how the non-Indian community would have felt.
Add this to the on-going BMobile soap opera with Margaret trying to use her hunky neighbour’s phone and all the other adverts and you will see that we Indian men are simply not the ‘smartchoice’ when it comes to BMobile! (And no, Spalk does not represent us, he is mixed). To make matter worse, the one Indian artiste BMobile sponsors (Raymond Ramnarine), has done his best to look like Shurwayne Winchester, cane rows and all, because he is in the midst of a grave identity crisis or thinks he would get further with his crossover music if he dilutes his Indianess. Sadly, he’s probably right.
When an Indian guy does feature in an ad, his role is peripheral and subsidiary. Even when it comes to little children, Indian boys are treated in a similar manner-never the centre of attention with the pretty girl.
I challenge readers to conduct their own informal survey. Even with kids, the discrimination is the same – Indian girls yes, Indian boys no or, with a minor subsidiary role. Scotia bank’s advertisement of its sponsorship of West Indies Kiddies cricket barely manages a token reference glimpse of an Indian boy. Could Scotibank have ever constructed this ad with a young Indian boy hitting a six and smashing the glass in the bank only to be comforted by an Indian bank manager? I doubt it.
Only this week, the press published pictures of Nataki Dilchan, a Clerk from the House of Representatives and Joseph Dipnarine, whose daughter was murdered. It reminded many that non-Indian women do in fact choose us as their life-partners. No ethnic group has a monopoly on racially mixed couples. Why not have some balance and reflect our diverse racial groups?
For those without the capacity to walk around in our shoes and see how nasty it feels to be treated as though we have the plague by the advertising industry, I have composed this poem for you to sing:
If yuh mixed, yuh fixed
If yuh Afro, yuh good to go
If yuh Indian, yuh just not Caribbean.
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I remember this article along with an interview he did with Umbala a few years ago. He complained about how few Indo- Trini women in the Miss Universe competitions. I suppose he will work to correct these injustices as AG.
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what ramlogan is a racist? s
lol. ok take win he racist. look i help u achieve ure goal easy easy
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what ramlogan is a racist? s
lol. ok take win he racist. look i help u achieve ure goal easy easy
Best yuh aks Kamla fuh de Minister of Defence portfolio yes.
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what ramlogan is a racist? s
lol. ok take win he racist. look i help u achieve ure goal easy easy
Best yuh aks Kamla fuh de Minister of Defence portfolio yes.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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what ramlogan is a racist? s
lol. ok take win he racist. look i help u achieve ure goal easy easy
My reply to you....
Equitable Governance?
By anand - Posted on 22 November 2009
A sad consequence of the racial-based nature of our politics is the exclusion of the “other” major race from governance. “They” simply have no say in how the nation’s resources are distributed, and do not enjoy any of the influence that comes with high public office. They never seem to “fit the bill” for such appointments which are supposedly made on merit. This glaring absence at the top explains why people identified with political jargon such as “alienated,” “marginalised,” “ostracised” and “tolerated.” Political discrimination in our system carries a racial connotation and perception if the victim is of the “other” tribe.
Hard data to substantiate racial imbalances that can justify inferences of discrimination is very difficult to obtain, as racial statistics are not really kept. Richard Thomas has taken the trouble to compile some statistics about the ethnic composition of the upper echelons of state-owned companies, and it paints a frightening picture that shows that things have actually got worse when one compares the relevant data on this issue in the 1980 report prepared by the Centre for Ethnic Studies, UWI. I present this table as evidence of the political discrimination that is retarding the growth and development of our dear country.
Airports Authority: Out of 11, 2 (1 Ramesh Lutchmedial, director; and 2 Rosalind Chinnia-Ramadeen, deputy general manager, (Operations, Crown Point). Caribbean Airlines: Out of 8, 1 (1 Dr Shafeek Sultan-Khan, director). DFL Caribbean: Out of 13, 3 (1 Rodney Prasad, director; 2 Stephen Singh, director; and 3 Gilian Golah, senior manager (Corporate Executive Operations) and company secretary. E-TECK: Out of 12, 2 (1 Nesha Kochhar, vice-President (Property Management); and 2 Henry Kumar, general manager (ICT Project Implementation); maybe a 3rd (Eugene Tiah, director).
FCB: Out of 25, 6 (1 Govind Maharaj, director; 2 Inez B Sinanan, director; 3 Ramcharan Kalicharan, chief executive officer (CMMB); 4 Lionel Seunarine, asst GM (Commercial Banking); 5 Shiva Manraj, financial controller (Finance and Planning); and 6 Harjoon Heeralal, corporate manager (Group Corp Planning) Namdevco: Out of 6, 1 (1 Cintra Persad, director) National Flour Mills: Out of 7, 2 (1 Ganesh Sahadeo, chairman; and 2 Ross Alexander, director). National Gas Company: Out of 16, 4 (1 Lisle Ramyad, director; 2 Winston Lalla, director; 3 Rebecca Ramdhanie, vice-president (Finance and Information Management Group); and 4 Prakash Saith, president (National Energy Corporation)
These statistics provide irrefutable evidence about the exclusion of Indo-Trinis from state corporations. The figures are probably no different in the foreign service, security service and public service in general. The reverse is probably true when the UNC was in power. The pendulum swung from one corner to the next. Can we ever realise that elusive dream of equality and meritocracy? Something for the reformers of our constitution to think about.
By Anand Ramlogan
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Anand...do they have Ido owned businesses in T&T?
I cannot argue about state enterprises, becasue when UNC was in Power Manning called petrotrin petrosingh....T&T boss, is de bess
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That a person with such an obvious agenda is now the AG raises some eyebrows... but I'll withold judgment until I see how his ideas manifest themselves in practice. For instance, many outside of the US know Thurgood Marshall as the first black Supreme Court Justice... and some may even be familiar with his prior civil rights work, such as the famed Brown v. Board of Education decision.
After all of his agitation for equal rights he also served as Solicitor General under LBJ however, before his appointment to the Supreme Court (incidentally, the same path pursued by Elena Kagan now, his former clerk). So there is a parallel there, and Marshall worked out okay... giving Anand the benefit of the doubt now, maybe all he really is interested in is equality.
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Ramlogan: I will learn from others’ mistakes
Gail Alexander
Published: 27 May 2010
Gail Alexander
Incoming Attorney General Anand Ramlogan has said he will stand for justice, equality and fair play and would learn from his predecessors’ mistakes. Ramlogan, 37, also told reporters yesterday he was awaiting the appointments of the Ministers for Justice and Legal Affairs to collaborate efforts to begin trying to deliver better criminal justice for T&T. He said: “The same issues I fought for—justice, equality, fair play—those will remain the same priorities as Attorney General for this new administration.
“I look forward to deepening the personal and professional relationship I enjoyed with the Chief Justice in deepening the administration of justice.” Ramlogan said the People’s Partnership Government would respect and reinforce the independence of the judiciary and there would be no interference. He said the judiciary would be provided with better resources and technology.
He said the Government would have to provide the judiciary with funding for developing that sector. Ramlogan also said it would be a co-ordinated effort, leading to a partnership that would be a “formidable assault on injustice and social inequity.” He added he would learn from his predecessors’ mistakes and would “walk the straight and narrow path and observe the highest ethics and constitutional principles meant to underpin the separation of powers and constitutional arrangements under which we operate our parliamentary system.”
http://guardian.co.tt/news/general/2010/05/27/ramlogan-i-will-learn-others-mistakes
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Anand Ramlogan studied law when he was a security guard. He worked and studied hard to become a star lawyer in T&T. Today he is Attorney General. Security Guard to AG. T&T is place like that, you could make it if you try. I respect him but I am alarmed by his ethnic agenda. Head counting is a clear indication of that.
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Anand Ramlogan studied law when he was a security guard. He worked and studied hard to become a star lawyer in T&T. Today he is Attorney General. Security Guard to AG. T&T is place like that, you could make it if you try. I respect him but I am alarmed by his ethnic agenda. Head counting is a clear indication of that.
what is the ethnc agenda ??..somepeople said Daaga had an ethnic agenda too but could never prove how with facts..not sayng you cant but give us a source..
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Anand Ramlogan studied law when he was a security guard. He worked and studied hard to become a star lawyer in T&T. Today he is Attorney General. Security Guard to AG. T&T is place like that, you could make it if you try. I respect him but I am alarmed by his ethnic agenda. Head counting is a clear indication of that.
Jah gol, if u talking about the article i dont see what u alarmed about.. most of what he said in that article i actually agreed with and is actually true.
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Anand Ramlogan studied law when he was a security guard. He worked and studied hard to become a star lawyer in T&T. Today he is Attorney General. Security Guard to AG. T&T is place like that, you could make it if you try. I respect him but I am alarmed by his ethnic agenda. Head counting is a clear indication of that.
what is the ethnc agenda ??..somepeople said Daaga had an ethnic agenda too but could never prove how with facts..not sayng you cant but give us a source..
The ethnic agenda is obvious... what other source you want, read the articles. It is cause for concern, but not alarm.... yet.
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Anand Ramlogan studied law when he was a security guard. He worked and studied hard to become a star lawyer in T&T. Today he is Attorney General. Security Guard to AG. T&T is place like that, you could make it if you try. I respect him but I am alarmed by his ethnic agenda. Head counting is a clear indication of that.
what is the ethnc agenda ??..somepeople said Daaga had an ethnic agenda too but could never prove how with facts..not sayng you cant but give us a source..
The ethnic agenda is obvious... what other source you want, read the articles. It is cause for concern, but not alarm.... yet.
yes i read and agreed with what he said below..
These statistics provide irrefutable evidence about the exclusion of Indo-Trinis from state corporations. The figures are probably no different in the foreign service, security service and public service in general. The reverse is probably true when the UNC was in power. The pendulum swung from one corner to the next. Can we ever realise that elusive dream of equality and meritocracy? Something for the reformers of our constitution to think about.
By Anand Ramlogan
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Anand Ramlogan studied law when he was a security guard. He worked and studied hard to become a star lawyer in T&T. Today he is Attorney General. Security Guard to AG. T&T is place like that, you could make it if you try. I respect him but I am alarmed by his ethnic agenda. Head counting is a clear indication of that.
Jah gol, if u talking about the article i dont see what u alarmed about.. most of what he said in that article i actually agreed with and is actually true.
I'm not just talking about this article but a particular trend I've seen with Mr. Ramlogan. This article in particular points shows racial statistics at stateboards. http://www.anandramlogan.com/node/445 (http://www.anandramlogan.com/node/445)
Why does it even matter ? Shouldn't be about an individuals' competence rather than what they look like. Many of his utterances are rooted in race. It is a major issue for him.
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yes i read and agreed with what he said below..
Just because you agree with it doesn't mean he doesn't have an agenda... his agenda is clear, he feels that Indo-Trinis need greater visibility and representation in TnT. In his mind TnT is still seen too much for his tastes as anything but Indo-Trini. The fact that there were several prominent Trinis of Indian descent in prior administrations isn't enough in his mind, there should be greater representation in the civil service and in the media.
To be honest I don't know what his gripe is with representations in the media, you don't see that many Trinis of largely African descent... but rather a healthy dose of douglas of various shades and ethnic compositions. Many prominent newscasters were and are of Indian descent (though I recognise this is a separate discussion) if you look at many advertisement for mas bands... yuh eh go find too many 'darkies' in them thing. Racism/colorism is still an issue... but he making it seem like it's an issue against Indo-Trinis specifically.
Also, with respect to the civil service... just from pure observation over the years I tend to agree that their numbers are depressed... but we need to examine "why" rather than assume racism is at the core. Many Indo-Trinis for instance, prefer to pursue opportunities in business and academia rather than the civil service... until all factors are considered then emphasis on any one is misplaced.
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I'm not just talking about this article but a particular trend I've seen with Mr. Ramlogan. This article in particular points shows racial statistics at stateboards. http://www.anandramlogan.com/node/445 (http://www.anandramlogan.com/node/445)
Why does it even matter ? Shouldn't be about an individuals' competence rather than what they look like. Many of his utterances are rooted in race. It is a major issue for him.
Jah Gol I think you have the makings of an Editorial on your hands... if you want to collaborate let me know.
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yes i read and agreed with what he said below..
Just because you agree with it doesn't mean he doesn't have an agenda... his agenda is clear, he feels that Indo-Trinis need greater visibility and representation in TnT. In his mind TnT is still seen too much for his tastes as anything but Indo-Trini. The fact that there were several prominent Trinis of Indian descent in prior administrations isn't enough in his mind, there should be greater representation in the civil service and in the media.
To be honest I don't know what his gripe is with representations in the media, you don't see that many Trinis of largely African descent... but rather a healthy dose of douglas of various shades and ethnic compositions. Many prominent newscasters were and are of Indian descent (though I recognise this is a separate discussion) if you look at many advertisement for mas bands... yuh eh go find too many 'darkies' in them thing. Racism/colorism is still an issue... but he making it seem like it's an issue against Indo-Trinis specifically.
Also, with respect to the civil service... just from pure observation over the years I tend to agree that their numbers are depressed... but we need to examine "why" rather than assume racism is at the core. Many Indo-Trinis for instance, prefer to pursue opportunities in business and academia to the civil service... until all factors are considered then emphasis on any one is misplaced.
I never said he did not or did have an agenda and what I believe is based on what I know, and not assumptions ..I ask Jah Gol what are the facts that made him believe this man have an ethnic angenda..you then later quoted me by telling me to read the articles. Therefore you tellng me what I beieve does not equal fact is useless. From what i read, what he is doing is no different from what most civil right activits did in America and in T&T..and that does not equal ethnic agenda to me..what you said above still does not prove ethnic agenda to me..
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I've been trying to remember something he said about 3 - 4 years ago that was real outta timin and generated some discussion on the talk shows. I remember he called into Tony and Dale's show one morning while they were discussing it to try and clarify his position. I don't think he did a very good job of it and ever since then Tony does watch him funny....but kill mih dead ah cyar remember what exactly what he said but it was raced based....and yes his writings have made me go ??? ??? a few times....
We shall see.....
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yes i read and agreed with what he said below..
Just because you agree with it doesn't mean he doesn't have an agenda... his agenda is clear, he feels that Indo-Trinis need greater visibility and representation in TnT. In his mind TnT is still seen too much for his tastes as anything but Indo-Trini. The fact that there were several prominent Trinis of Indian descent in prior administrations isn't enough in his mind, there should be greater representation in the civil service and in the media.
To be honest I don't know what his gripe is with representations in the media, you don't see that many Trinis of largely African descent... but rather a healthy dose of douglas of various shades and ethnic compositions. Many prominent newscasters were and are of Indian descent (though I recognise this is a separate discussion) if you look at many advertisement for mas bands... yuh eh go find too many 'darkies' in them thing. Racism/colorism is still an issue... but he making it seem like it's an issue against Indo-Trinis specifically.
Also, with respect to the civil service... just from pure observation over the years I tend to agree that their numbers are depressed... but we need to examine "why" rather than assume racism is at the core. Many Indo-Trinis for instance, prefer to pursue opportunities in business and academia to the civil service... until all factors are considered then emphasis on any one is misplaced.
I never said he did not or did have an agenda and what I believe is based on what I know, and not assumptions its not fact ..I ask Jah Gol what are the facts that made him believe this man have an ethnic angenda..you then later quoted me by telling me to read the articles. Therefore tellng me what I beieve does not equal fact is useless. From what i read, what he is doing is no different from what most civil right activits did in America and in T&T..and that does not equal ethnic agenda to me..what you said above still does not prove ethnic agenda to me..
The mere fact that you can't look at it objectively speaks volumes
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Anand Ramlogan studied law when he was a security guard. He worked and studied hard to become a star lawyer in T&T. Today he is Attorney General. Security Guard to AG. T&T is place like that, you could make it if you try. I respect him but I am alarmed by his ethnic agenda. Head counting is a clear indication of that.
Jah gol, if u talking about the article i dont see what u alarmed about.. most of what he said in that article i actually agreed with and is actually true.
I'm not just talking about this article but a particular trend I've seen with Mr. Ramlogan. This article in particular points shows racial statistics at stateboards. http://www.anandramlogan.com/node/445 (http://www.anandramlogan.com/node/445)
Why does it even matter ? Shouldn't be about an individuals' competence rather than what they look like. Many of his utterances are rooted in race. It is a major issue for him.
You can be right, but this seems like a trend of an activst to me ..maybe if we had more activist in T&T instead of "PNM til ah die" ..the current PNM administration would not have felt to "do as I please, because we will get voted again"..
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Anand Ramlogan studied law when he was a security guard. He worked and studied hard to become a star lawyer in T&T. Today he is Attorney General. Security Guard to AG. T&T is place like that, you could make it if you try. I respect him but I am alarmed by his ethnic agenda. Head counting is a clear indication of that.
Jah gol, if u talking about the article i dont see what u alarmed about.. most of what he said in that article i actually agreed with and is actually true.
I'm not just talking about this article but a particular trend I've seen with Mr. Ramlogan. This article in particular points shows racial statistics at stateboards. http://www.anandramlogan.com/node/445 (http://www.anandramlogan.com/node/445)
Why does it even matter ? Shouldn't be about an individuals' competence rather than what they look like. Many of his utterances are rooted in race. It is a major issue for him.
CO-SIGNNNNNNNNNNNNNN. D problem is dat in his community Anand suffers from neva taught and d fact dat he did A's at Pville instead ah Naps mean he not part of dat circle where he feel 1 ah d boys. D class discrimination is 1 ah Anand problem dat in conjunction wit his racist statements mean buckle up 4 d rough ride.
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there should have been more activists with the character of Ramlogan demanding their basic needs from the PNM instead of "PNm til ah die" mentality...having the Manning administration doing what they want cause they felt secure they will always get votes from the die hards..
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there should have been more activists with the character of Ramlogan demanding their basc needs from the PNM instead of "PNm til ah die" ..mentality...having the Manning administration doing what they want
so what basic needs have been denied? One can only be a civil rights activist one when one's civil rights are being denied.
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there should have been more activists with the character of Ramlogan demanding their basc needs from the PNM instead of "PNm til ah die" ..mentality...having the Manning administration doing what they want
so what basic needs have been denied? One can only be a civil rights activist one when one's civil rights are being denied.
Fella the Opposition campaigned about the discontent from the ground of the people complaining about roads not being fixed , hospitals in Tobago and Pont fortin being promised but never buit, water problems (you want more or you want links ?)..
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I never said he did not or did have an agenda and what I believe is based on what I know, and not assumptions ..I ask Jah Gol what are the facts that made him believe this man have an ethnic angenda..you then later quoted me by telling me to read the articles. Therefore you tellng me what I beieve does not equal fact is useless. From what i read, what he is doing is no different from what most civil right activits did in America and in T&T..and that does not equal ethnic agenda to me..what you said above still does not prove ethnic agenda to me..
The implication from this statement is clear that the civil rights activists you cite did not have ethnic agendas. That alone tells me you don't know what the ass yuh talking about. And btw...
what is the ethnc agenda ??..somepeople said Daaga had an ethnic agenda too but could never prove how with facts..not sayng you cant but give us a source..
The clear implication from this quote above is that you question the existence of an ethnic agenda. You also state above that what he's doing "does not equal an ethnic agenda to me". So play dotish if it makes you happy but stating that he doesn't have an ethnic agenda... then turning around and saying "I never said he did or did not have an agenda" tells me all I need to know where you stand.
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wow yuh really good at fooling yuhself and obfuscating things.... poor infrastructure and the failure to provide services is NOT a denial of civil rights....
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The clear implication from this quote above is that you question the existence of an ethnic agenda. You also state above that what he's doing "does not equal an ethnic agenda to me". So play dotish if it makes you happy but stating that he doesn't have an ethnic agenda... then turning around and saying "I never said he did or did not have an agenda" tells me all I need to know where you stand.
yes i said based on what i know, based on what he is doing, based on what I read seems more like a civil rights activist to me and does not equal an ethnic agenda..but never said what I know is fact because there is always a possibilty of something that is not existent or something I do not know..
if it was Daaga saying what Ramlogan is saying then I believe alot of indo Trinis would say Daaga also have an ethnic agenda..there are even some who believe Manning have an ethnic agenda ...
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wow yuh really good at fooling yuhself and obfuscating things.... poor infrastructure and the failure to provide services is NOT a denial of civil rights....
I meant activsts...but you are right its not denial of CIVIL rights..however I know you understood my point very well
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You are hereAnand's Collection / 'Rubber stamp' discrimination
'Rubber stamp' discrimination
By anand - Posted on 26 July 2009
If you’re waiting for a court judgment that declares that someone was a victim of racial discrimination, before you believe racial discrimination exists, you’re in for a long wait, for no one can prove racial discrimination. All a citizen can show is that he was treated unequally or differently, when compared with other similarly circumstanced people.
The motive and reason for the unfair treatment is not a matter the victim can prove, for this would be known only by the discriminator. This common sense reasoning explains why our constitution does not require an aggrieved citizen to prove why he was treated differently; all he needs to show is that he was treated unequally or unfairly. In the past, the racial imbalance in the public service was probably due to social, cultural and political influences that made it a more attractive career option for non-Indians.
Since the 80s, however, things have changed. Indians are now the single largest ethnic group. It is an educated, large workforce. They are not confined to the South alone, but have migrated to and re-settled in various parts of the island. The children of the cane cutters have been educated and find the public service a good career option. In the face of this new reality, the persistent racial imbalance in the public service and (in particular the hierarchy), demands closer analysis.
Demonstrated bias
Is there a glass ceiling in the public service that prevents Indo-Trini public servants from gaining promotion to the higher levels? Is there an institutional bias against Indo-Trini public servants? Is this bias a conscious, unconscious or subconscious one? Is this all based on race? Or, is it simply political favouritism and discrimination, which translates into a demonstrated bias against Indians, because our politics is one that is based on race?
Are there other forms of discrimination based on gender, locality connections, etc? The cases of Devant Maharaj, Khimraj Bissessar, Ganga-Persad Kissoon, Feroza Ramjohn and Harridath Maharaj all concerned promotion to high public office. The courts declared that they were treated unfairly when they were bypassed in favour of others.
Invariably, they were bypassed in favour of junior officers with less qualifications and experience who were non-Indian. Their long and distinguished careers were restricted by unfair treatment. I have represented many public servants of all races, and know that discrimination is not simply confined to race. It is much wider, and many Afro-Trini public servants are also treated unfairly. The complaints vary, but it is clear that all is not well with the hiring and promotion practices in the public sector.
What are some of the grouses?
1. The promotion interview panels seldom contain Indo-Trinidadian interviewers, and this leads to an unnecessarily (and sometimes unjustified) feeling of discrimination when Indian officers are given lower marks by the interview panel. It is suspected that interviews were used as a sham or device to ensure the promotion of certain favoured officers.
2. Staff reports and the disciplinary process are, sometimes, cleverly used to manipulate the procedure for promotion by suddenly giving adverse markings or inventing bogus disciplinary matters to prejudice and weaken an officer’s claim for promotion at a critical time.
Right questions
Once promotions are made, these adverse markings or disciplinary charges are simply withdrawn.
3. The system for acting appointments is also abused by putting someone to “warm” the seat without confirming them, while the favoured person is given time to qualify for the promotion, or the person appointed to act reaches retirement age.
4. The granting of study leave is carefully controlled to allow favoured officers time off to better their qualifications, while denying applications from others.
This allows some to “pad” their resumes and position themselves to cash in on promotions at the expense of others. It gives them an unfair competitive edge.
The commission is supposed to be independent, but operates in a vacuum or ivory tower, as though it is unaware of the plight of those who complain about discrimination and unfair treatment. It has done nothing to alter the racial composition of the interview panels, for example. It sometimes acts as a “rubber stamp” without asking the right questions, with the result that discrimination occurs frequently. It is often a classic case of an independent body naively “clearing track for a particular ’gouti to run.”
By Anand Ramlogan
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The are numerous examples of so called preferential treatment to people of different backgrounds, be it the enrollment process for medical school at UWI or the make up of a national team.
So you feel under represented in certain section of society, but instead of claiming prejudicial practices and stopping short of crying out for affirmative actions. Take a step back and ask was the best person hired for the job? Did the individual(s) want the job.
I will speak from my perspective, growing up civil i.e. police man, army officer was not something I aspired too, they aren’t any of those in my family and I was simply not exposed. So naturally when pursuing my career these were not paths that I considered. To say that the composition of the civil service is skewed one must also consider that applicants for the jobs are also skewed.
There is no disputing that the hiring practices of past governments have been skewed to benefit their supporters and thus appeared to be racial even if not intended.
If we are to break the cycle, we as a society has to figure out how to expose the next generation in all aspects. I left home ~12 yrs ago but before leaving my interactions with the police would never have inspired me to become one. I believe that I would have a better life if I did something else.
If the new AG wants to see more Indians in the civil service maybe he should looking at ways of encouraging them to enroll. This also extends to sports.
This by no means is a denial of racism in our society, I choose instead to put fwd a possible fix.
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Good perspective trinindian... I completely agree. Of course it helps that you express (in greater detail) the same ideas that I touched on earlier ;D
But that last article MEP post was a good one too... I think Anand touched on some rational explanations for the discrepancy and he tried to do a objective job of showing how and why it exists. Unfortunately I think the overall tenor of the three articles posted thus far reveal that he's less interested in the objective reasons why the discrepancies (in hiring, representations in the media etc.) exists... and more concerned with focusing on the facts that they DO exist, and that the numbers of Indo-Trinis need to be increased.
As I stated before, I don't think this "fixation" itself is a bad thing... but if approached with a solution in mind, rather than just a blind focus on balancing representative figures then we start approaching "quota" talk which understandably makes people uneasy. In his new role as AG he has be be clear in showing no partiality to any sector... but his past positions make it hard for people to judge him objectively. I think that is the cause for concern. For me personally it's too early to worry... but I understand the concerns being expressed.
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You are hereAnand's Collection / 'Rubber stamp' discrimination
'Rubber stamp' discrimination
By anand - Posted on 26 July 2009
If you’re waiting for a court judgment that declares that someone was a victim of racial discrimination, before you believe racial discrimination exists, you’re in for a long wait, for no one can prove racial discrimination. All a citizen can show is that he was treated unequally or differently, when compared with other similarly circumstanced people.
The motive and reason for the unfair treatment is not a matter the victim can prove, for this would be known only by the discriminator. This common sense reasoning explains why our constitution does not require an aggrieved citizen to prove why he was treated differently; all he needs to show is that he was treated unequally or unfairly. In the past, the racial imbalance in the public service was probably due to social, cultural and political influences that made it a more attractive career option for non-Indians.
Since the 80s, however, things have changed. Indians are now the single largest ethnic group. It is an educated, large workforce. They are not confined to the South alone, but have migrated to and re-settled in various parts of the island. The children of the cane cutters have been educated and find the public service a good career option. In the face of this new reality, the persistent racial imbalance in the public service and (in particular the hierarchy), demands closer analysis.
Demonstrated bias
Is there a glass ceiling in the public service that prevents Indo-Trini public servants from gaining promotion to the higher levels? Is there an institutional bias against Indo-Trini public servants? Is this bias a conscious, unconscious or subconscious one? Is this all based on race? Or, is it simply political favouritism and discrimination, which translates into a demonstrated bias against Indians, because our politics is one that is based on race?
Are there other forms of discrimination based on gender, locality connections, etc? The cases of Devant Maharaj, Khimraj Bissessar, Ganga-Persad Kissoon, Feroza Ramjohn and Harridath Maharaj all concerned promotion to high public office. The courts declared that they were treated unfairly when they were bypassed in favour of others.
Invariably, they were bypassed in favour of junior officers with less qualifications and experience who were non-Indian. Their long and distinguished careers were restricted by unfair treatment. I have represented many public servants of all races, and know that discrimination is not simply confined to race. It is much wider, and many Afro-Trini public servants are also treated unfairly. The complaints vary, but it is clear that all is not well with the hiring and promotion practices in the public sector.
What are some of the grouses?
1. The promotion interview panels seldom contain Indo-Trinidadian interviewers, and this leads to an unnecessarily (and sometimes unjustified) feeling of discrimination when Indian officers are given lower marks by the interview panel. It is suspected that interviews were used as a sham or device to ensure the promotion of certain favoured officers.
2. Staff reports and the disciplinary process are, sometimes, cleverly used to manipulate the procedure for promotion by suddenly giving adverse markings or inventing bogus disciplinary matters to prejudice and weaken an officer’s claim for promotion at a critical time.
Right questions
Once promotions are made, these adverse markings or disciplinary charges are simply withdrawn.
3. The system for acting appointments is also abused by putting someone to “warm” the seat without confirming them, while the favoured person is given time to qualify for the promotion, or the person appointed to act reaches retirement age.
4. The granting of study leave is carefully controlled to allow favoured officers time off to better their qualifications, while denying applications from others.
This allows some to “pad” their resumes and position themselves to cash in on promotions at the expense of others. It gives them an unfair competitive edge.
The commission is supposed to be independent, but operates in a vacuum or ivory tower, as though it is unaware of the plight of those who complain about discrimination and unfair treatment. It has done nothing to alter the racial composition of the interview panels, for example. It sometimes acts as a “rubber stamp” without asking the right questions, with the result that discrimination occurs frequently. It is often a classic case of an independent body naively “clearing track for a particular ’gouti to run.”
By Anand Ramlogan
Based on his observations in the above article, it appears that the discrimination is political rather than ethnic!
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Meh family will make an excellent AG! give the man ah chance.
allyuh sounding like white people in America when black people open dey mouth.
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LOL
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there should have been more activists with the character of Ramlogan demanding their basic needs from the PNM instead of "PNm til ah die" mentality...having the Manning administration doing what they want cause they felt secure they will always get votes from the die hards..
UNC supporters still have the balls to say that PNM supporters are "PNM till I dead"...U all should be ashamed to even say anything close to that...When the UNC administration was swimming deep in corruption...No matter what they did, all the UNC seats still remained safe. Why no seats swinged towards the PNM during that time?..The east indians came out in their numbers and voted party...Panday and his cronies all won their seats handsomely..So because it have some ppl who don't agree with the UNC and their policies, they become "PNM till I dead"..That is bullshit...The Pnm sitting in parliament with only 12 seats what till I dead mentality you talking about.. When the PNM won the election in 2007 and Panday said blame yourself for any rape or kidnapping that took place, you also remembered Kamla coming out and saying that the PNM was a minority government and that they planned to make the country ungovernable..You have short memory right...This same woman who wearing flag pin and thing now...That wasn't unpatriotic...DO SO..!!!
On a lighter note though....I rel wish Colm Imbert lose that seat...I would gladly give up that seat to wipe that smirk off his face..!!
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But that last article MEP post was a good one too... I think Anand touched on some rational explanations for the
Agreeded, hence my statement that this not a denial........
Maybe ...... I living in the cold to longer and I jus jaded. But I have to ask Mr. Anand now that you tell me what wrong with society how do we change it?
How about establishing policies that require a diverse interview board at goverment agencies.
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there should have been more activists with the character of Ramlogan demanding their basic needs from the PNM instead of "PNm til ah die" mentality...having the Manning administration doing what they want cause they felt secure they will always get votes from the die hards..
UNC supporters still have the balls to say that PNM supporters are "PNM till I dead"...U all should be ashamed to even say anything close to that...When the UNC administration was swimming deep in corruption...No matter what they did, all the UNC seats still remained safe. Why no seats swinged towards the PNM during that time?..The east indians came out in their numbers and voted party...Panday and his cronies all won their seats handsomely..So because it have some ppl who don't agree with the UNC and their policies, they become "PNM till I dead"..That is bullshit...The Pnm sitting in parliament with only 12 seats what till I dead mentality you talking about.. When the PNM won the election in 2007 and Panday said blame yourself for any rape or kidnapping that took place, you also remembered Kamla coming out and saying that the PNM was a minority government and that they planned to make the country ungovernable..You have short memory right...This same woman who wearing flag pin and thing now...That wasn't unpatriotic...DO SO..!!!
On a lighter note though....I rel wish Colm Imbert lose that seat...I would gladly give up that seat to wipe that smirk off his face..!!
..dont let your bitterness fool you I dont care for any party to that extent for you to be so emotional...most of what you said above has nothing to do with what I said regarding "Pnm til ah dead" versus "being more of an activist for what you want "..and i never said anyone cannot agree with a party policies..
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UNC supporters still have the balls to say that PNM supporters are "PNM till I dead"...U all should be ashamed to even say anything close to that...When the UNC administration was swimming deep in corruption...No matter what they did, all the UNC seats still remained safe. Why no seats swinged towards the PNM during that time?..
Isn't this a bit rash, how else would the PNM win the election if the UNC did not loose seats. Since the previous election was tied 17. ;)
I believe you are refering to the lost of Arima a traditional PNM strong hold. However you should also remember the Chaguanas seat that the PNM won last election. I belive what we are seeing is that soon there will be no safe seats,.
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UNC supporters still have the balls to say that PNM supporters are "PNM till I dead"...U all should be ashamed to even say anything close to that...When the UNC administration was swimming deep in corruption...No matter what they did, all the UNC seats still remained safe. Why no seats swinged towards the PNM during that time?..
Isn't this a bit rash, how else would the PNM win the election if the UNC did not loose seats. Since the previous election was tied 17. ;)
I believe you are refering to the lost of Arima a traditional PNM strong hold. However you should also remember the Chaguanas seat that the PNM won last election. I belive what we are seeing is that soon there will be no safe seats,.
on more than a few occasions ive had conversations with anand, hes intelligent, well read and has a vision for tt, not a racist bone is his body, he states facts and has many experiences to back it up, unbiased and untainted. he has represented all ethnic groups and has seen many sides.
his articles are geared towards making the system fair, if people have a problem dealing with his facts and truth, hard luck, deal with it, he isnt lying or distorting facts, he doesnt want 100% indo power in the public sector if some feel that way. sometimes some people cant digest the facts and truth of what is going on in tt, they rather condemn than own up to the facts.
if anand's agenda proves in the next few years to be ethnically driven, then condemn, otherwise dress back and relax yuh damn self.
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I believe you are refering to the lost of Arima a traditional PNM strong hold. However you should also remember the Chaguanas seat that the PNM won last election. I belive what we are seeing is that soon there will be no safe seats,.
Just need to note here that the PNM won that Chaguanas East seat because of the split between UNC and COP....end of story....it had nothing to do with people swinging to the PNM....
2007 results 2010 results
PNM 6,757 PNM 6,717
COP 4,122 UNC 10,797
UNC 4,993
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Isn't this a bit rash, how else would the PNM win the election if the UNC did not loose seats. Since the previous election was tied 17. ;)
I believe you are refering to the lost of Arima a traditional PNM strong hold. However you should also remember the Chaguanas seat that the PNM won last election. I belive what we are seeing is that soon there will be no safe seats,.
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Breads that Chaguanas seat was won because of the split vote between the UNC and COP...But in this election we have seen a complete swing in PNM seats not becoming marginal but being won by the oppostion..That is all that I am pointing out and people still saying stuff like "PNM till I dead" and we have the facts and figures to show that this isn't the case...!!
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So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few.
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So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few.
So with all the disenfranchisement going on why not one of the UNC safeseats swing towards the PNM or The COP??? When it comes to the PNM supporters they are seen as "PNM till I dead supporters" but Unc supporters are seen as unc till I dead but rather "Die Hard Unc"
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So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few.
I can't see there being that many disenfranchised PNM supporters voting for the COP back in 2007. The UDeCOTT shit hadn't hit the fan as yet and things was generally nice. The bulk of those COP votes were UNC people who were vex with Panday as well as some traditional fence sitters. JMHO.....
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So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few.
So with all the disenfranchisement going on why not one of the UNC safeseats swing towards the PNM or The COP??? When it comes to the PNM supporters they are seen as "PNM till I dead supporters" but Unc supporters are seen as unc till I dead but rather "Die Hard Unc"
aaarrrmmm.........Congo correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it that the PNM supporters are the ones who openly declare that they are PNM till ah dead?? ??? :-\
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On the issue of a character witness, there is no need for one. The question I have is a simple one now that you have pointed out was is wrong with society. How do we improve. One may read his articles and conclude this article confirms what I have been saying no need to apply i will never get it. Problem resolution is more than just identifying the problem.
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aaarrrmmm.........Congo correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it that the PNM supporters are the ones who openly declare that they are PNM till ah dead?? ??? :-\
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Whether or not they openly claim to be PNM till ah dead is irrelevant because because the voting patterns have shown that it's not one party guilty of this behaviour...In this election the PNM losts a number of their safe seats....Regardless of what happened under the UNC not one of their safe seats ever swung towards the PNM so.....Till dead...I don't think so..The numbers don't show that...!!
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What are the so called safe seats?
Does one party have more safe seats than the other?
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You know what I really cah understand, is why you have to be a PNM till ah dead, or a UNC die hard. Is almost like we don't have minds of our own and are incapable of forming an independent opinion.
the crazy independent liberal
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More again..... not sure of the date though
PNM POLICE & UNC SADIQ By Anand Ramlogan
'Perception is important'. This is one of the first things I was told in law school. Picture this: a black man is tried and convicted by an all-white jury for committing a crime against a white person. Whether people say it or not, the irresistible urge and temptation is to say that race played a factor and the trial was not fair. Justice must not only be done but must appear to be done. Would it matter if these people were told that none of the jurors were racially prejudiced? Even if they weren't racial, the perception would take root. Human nature perhaps? This brings me to the media conference hosted by Police Commissioner Hilton Guy to deny that the police service was in any conspiracy with the PNM to frame UNC party organizer Sadiq Baksh. Let me put this political conspiracy allegation in its proper social context.
Our country has 2 major races almost equal in numbers. The majority of Africans vote PNM and the majority of Indians vote UNC. Ethnic voting is a fact. The hierarchy of the police service is almost 90% African from the rank of Corporal upwards. Based on our history of racial voting the perception (and reality) is that African police officers vote for and support the PNM.
This socio-political reality would be exchanged if it were the other way around, with the majority of police officers being Indians and my comments in this article would have been no different - I would have been arguing for the inclusion of more Africans in our police service. Which party does Mr Guy think the majority of his officers support - the UNC? The odds are, they support the PNM.
Lets not kid ourselves. There is a growing perception among UNC supporters(the majority of whom are Indians), that there is a tacit political alliance between the PNM and certain high-ranking powerful officers in the police service. The frequent leaks to the media during the police investigations into the airport which led to daily sensational, politically damaging headlines, the recent attack by Christopher Holder President of the Police Officers Association against Mr Panday, the secret invitation to the media to cover the private visit and search by the police of UNC Carlos John's home, and the handcuffing of Mr Baksh's harmless niece who was on voter padding changes etc reinforce this perception.
The ethnic composition of the police service is fertile ground for this growing perception. Should such an important institution and pillar of our democracy not reflect the racial composition of our society? The perception that we have a PNM-friendly police service because of the conspicuous absence of Indian officers is not going to go away. Fear and respect for the police might make people reluctant to voice this perception, but it is there. The professionalism and integrity of our present officers is no answer to this problem of perception - remember that all-white judge and jury trial - they were not racial. It is crucial that the police service reflect the ethnic composition of the society that it has to 'protect and serve". Ethnic balance inspires confidence and public trust.
In Britain, the government is redressing the historic racial imbalance in its police service. They have set up a "Positive Action Team " (PAT) to recruit non-white officers with emphasis on Indians and Africans. PAT's aim is to dismantle barriers and promote change through the visible recruitment of ethnic minorities.
What is 'positive action"? It is a term derived from the Race Relations Act which allows an organization to offer extra support, advice education and encouragement to any under represented group. PAT's role is to assist the metropolitan police in achieving its target of 25% ethnic minority officers by 2009. This is a Home office directive as set out in government policy documents "Dismantling Barriers".
PAT organizes recruitment drives in ethnic minority areas to specially target Asian and Africans. They run 'candidate support sessions' to gently encourage and persuade candidates to join the police service. The minimum height requirement has long been abolished and physical fitness is judged by reference to the candidate's height and weight. This is helpful to ethnic groups that are naturally smaller in height and built. Recruitment for the technical and administrative departments of the police service is treated differently to the rest of the service.
A survey of the police service found that "the prevailing police culture was predominantly white and male, excluding those who were different. There were varied opinions as to the level of racism in the police and in particular whether it was any more prevalent than in wider society, but its existence was not questioned. Perceptions ranged from 'inherently racist' to 'an intransigent minority'. However, officers agreed that the power and responsibilities they had meant that the police had to be seen to be better than other institutions'. (Home Office; Attitudes of People policy document 2000).
The introduction of an 'ethnic monitoring policy' for the police service in London is worthy of emulation. Indians are not an ethnic minority here. The racial gap must be bridged. The last rounds of promotions in the police service show that the racial status quo is likely to continue for the next 10-20 years with Indians continuing to be nothing more than an inconspicuous minority in the hierarchy of our police service. Mr Guy and his deputy Commissioners Messrs Snaggs and Grant must address this problem now. Preaching that the police service is not PNM without acknowledging and redressing this problem of a racial imbalance with its obvious political implications will only reinforce the perception that the service is PNM.
I shall end by quoting the first paragraph of the Equal Opportunities policy of the London police: "The Metropolitan police seek to employ a workforce which reflects the diversity of backgrounds and cultures within which we operate and provide a working environment free from any form of harassment intimidation, bullying, victimization or unjustifiable discrimination". Over to you, Mr Guy
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So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few.
It has always been like this!
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So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few.
It has always been like this!
So is the number of seats skewed in one party's favour?
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So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few.
It has always been like this!
So is the number of seats skewed in one party's favour?
I would say yes, PNM's becasue indians live typically in fewer areas and in more densely populated areas too. But that has changed with many moving into more northern and western areas, additionally, PNM has ruled for longer and had ample opportunity to move their supporters into government homes.
One thing I have noticed this last election is that many dyed in the wool PNMites stated very openly that they were NOT going to vote PNM becasue their PM had lost touch with them and their wishes.
One group said quite candidly that past PNm governments took care of their people, but Manning and this government betrayed them, and gave everything to a white trini born in Canada. We all know who they talking about.
They say hospital broken, schools broken ut is summit and big buildings and smelter.
Manning clearly lost touch with his supporters and most citizens. The media played a crucial role in the rout too. They were very harsh and even when he did good they questioned him, he had become that polarizing.
I think the turning point in this whole thing really occured when he stormed into the radio station.
His referring to himself in third person and Jack warner!
Don't understate the part warner played in this whole revolution of sorts. from ramesh to panday to Manning....common thread= Jack Warner.
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So are we saying that in 2005? Those that vote for the COP were disenfranchised UNC Only and no disenfranchised PNM. Well I don't wrk for the EBC so can't argue otherwise and I guess they will always be a majority of safe seats and the election will be decided by a few.
It has always been like this!
So is the number of seats skewed in one party's favour?
I would say yes, PNM's becasue indians live typically in fewer areas and in more densely populated areas too. But that has changed with many moving into more northern and western areas, additionally, PNM has ruled for longer and had ample opportunity to move their supporters into government homes.
One thing I have noticed this last election is that many dyed in the wool PNMites stated very openly that they were NOT going to vote PNM becasue their PM had lost touch with them and their wishes.
One group said quite candidly that past PNm governments took care of their people, but Manning and this government betrayed them, and gave everything to a white trini born in Canada. We all know who they talking about.
They say hospital broken, schools broken ut is summit and big buildings and smelter.
Manning clearly lost touch with his supporters and most citizens. The media played a crucial role in the rout too. They were very harsh and even when he did good they questioned him, he had become that polarizing.
I think the turning point in this whole thing really occured when he stormed into the radio station.
His referring to himself in third person and Jack warner!
Don't understate the part warner played in this whole revolution of sorts. from ramesh to panday to Manning....common thread= Jack Warner.
Jack Warner, the devil himself! :devil:
Reminds me of that horror movie where the Devil becomes the President of America!
Was it "The Omen" or "Exorcist"? But allyuh should know the one!
We got to watch Jack with even more of a hawk's eye now and say allyuh prayers! 8)
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Putting his football missjudgments and bad business dealings aside, i actually think warner would make ah good politician. is just that he's ah bad pay master, and ah bandit in his former private business dealings. but i think all that's about to change....... (hopefully :nailbiting: ) .
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Ah boy TT, or should i say jackmanday. :devil: ah see yuh recover from dat cut skin on monday. doh worry , like black stalin said in his song " better day are coming". :devil:
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Putting his football missjudgments and bad business dealings aside, i actually think warner would make ah good politician. is just that he's ah bad pay master, and ah bandit in his former private business dealings. but i think all that's about to change....... (hopefully :nailbiting: ) .
Good politician? Isn't that an oxymoron? :-\
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Airman, yuh bias bad!! yuh cyar compare the african american struggle wid the indo trini's. the last time indo trinis was discriminated against on a political level was during the colonial era. when DR williams was PM, no group benefited more than the indo trini community, and that's ah fact!!
it was not a result of the labor party, cappeldeo, panday, or the colonial crumbs that fell from the elizabeth's table, but rather the independent movement particularly the williams PNM regime and the black power struggle! as a matter of fact, indo trinis benefited more from the black power uprising and the williams regime moreso than nigger charlie himself!!
one day, when the place mellow out, take ah walk or ah drive through the PNM strong hold, EDR behind the bridge and see how underprivileged the place is. ppl still livin in tenements and shitting in back yard latrines, wid barley any running water and dilapidated roads.
during that era, eric williams give loads of agricultural loans to rural farmers which indians make up the bulk, and free government farm land, but only gave his main supporters POS east, 10 days/ welfare (d.e.w.d). remember, when the british abolished slavery and brought in indentured labor, the indians made up the majority, while most african headed in the rural parts of the country seeking employment,
is there the indian community lucked out in the post colonial era, that's BC most farm land was in rural waller field and central trinidad which is heavily populated by indo trinis. very few afro trinis knew anything about farming , and had no interest in farming save ah few.
to me this ramlogan fella have an axe tuh grind, and i doh blame him, BC indians were given a negative image in the local media and social circuit, that's majorly BC most indians lived isolated from the rest of the population ( which is their own damn fault) but as far as in-opportunity? nahhhh, they were never denied.
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Putting his football missjudgments and bad business dealings aside, i actually think warner would make ah good politician. is just that he's ah bad pay master, and ah bandit in his former private business dealings. but i think all that's about to change....... (hopefully :nailbiting: ) .
Good politician? Isn't that an oxymoron? :-\
Quite so, but even the devil deserve ah chance tuh change his ways.
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indians benefited from under the pnm to an extent, but they worked hard to be where dey is. Not all indians had land, however the family structure instilled good moral upbringing and strong emphasis on education so that the next generations wont have to toil in the fields. Education was there for the Africans under the pnm as well. One group made their businesses starting from small, and made their careers from studies, another group benefited more from the PSA and other gov't jobs.
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indians benefited from under the pnm to an extent, but they worked hard to be where dey is. Not all indians had land, however the family structure instilled good moral upbringing and strong emphasis on education so that the next generations wont have to toil in the fields. Education was there for the Africans under the pnm as well. One group made their businesses starting from small, and made their careers from studies, another group benefited more from the PSA and other gov't jobs.
Sammy, this is ah very true quote from ah very good statesman. he said and i quote" until the wealth and opportunity is distributed equally to the masses, there will always have crime and poverty". muhammad ibn abdullah.
sammy, believe it or not, when the british rode out of our country, they left us almost high and dry. when dr williams went to the crown for financial assistance soon after taking power, he was rejected and told to go home make best of the resources he had. thank god for the oil boom of the early seventies BC he would've failed worst than bustamante.
as for indians working hard and sending their children to school, YES! you are totally correct, but had it not been for dr williams who afforded them agricultural land and loans tuh buy tractor and big trucks, giving amar and mutilal moonan all dem big contracts tuh build and repair roads of whom they only hired indians, yuh think yuh would've been able tuh make that statement.
is the poor afro trinis who kept him in power over 30 yrs, and the most he gave them was huge tenements called (plannings) the ppl's mall, 10 days and NHA jobs, which payed almost next tuh nothing.
indians and syrians on the other hand got all kind of assistance from the govt, that's BC they had the things success is made of, land and business property.
trust meh horse, black urban ppl didn't even have ah prayer!! when the british left, all they left us was the clothes on our backs! my mother and her contemporaries were so poor, that some days they barely had food tuh eat, they had tuh watch their mothers work for shillings in white ppl's houses! while they lived in barracks yards ( poor tenaments) in ah one room bongalo sleepin in bedding, (not to mistaken with beds) going hungry many nights.
they( her contemporaries and her siblings) had tuh leave school and find work as early as fourteen in order to survive. ah guess you had no idea how harsh and callous the british was post slavery and colonial era eh? you think is just so ppl does become successful? it takes real know how, and some luck as well my friend.
even dr williams mother was ah maid back in those days like so many black women, back then black urban ppl, BTW who was the majority of the black population , were relegated tuh servitude, (maids, gardenrs and watchmen) barely could take care of their families, let alone educate them properly.
you under estimate culture and a lack thereof my friend! ah lack of culture mixed with poverty is the things failur is made of. when yuh lose yuh culture language and family structure, even dog become better than yuh.
no disrespect intended, but i doh remember little infant indian boys and girls being sold from up under their parents like puppies! but i do remember that happening during the 16 ,17 and 1800s tuh afro trinis , who mind you , worked the land for free and got nothing in return, not even ah start up money and land to live on after the british released them in the wild.
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indians benefited from under the pnm to an extent, but they worked hard to be where dey is. Not all indians had land, however the family structure instilled good moral upbringing and strong emphasis on education so that the next generations wont have to toil in the fields. Education was there for the Africans under the pnm as well. One group made their businesses starting from small, and made their careers from studies, another group benefited more from the PSA and other gov't jobs.
Sammy, this is ah very true quote from ah very good statesman. he said and i quote" until the wealth and opportunity is distributed equally to the masses, there will always have crime and poverty". muhammad ibn abdullah.
sammy, believe it or not, when the british rode out of our country, they left us almost high and dry. when dr williams went to the crown for financial assistance soon after taking power, he was rejected and told to go home make best of the resources he had. thank god for the oil boom of the early seventies BC he would've failed worst than bustamante.
as for indians working hard and sending their children to school, YES! you are totally correct, but had it not been for dr williams who afforded them agricultural land and loans tuh buy tractor and big trucks, giving amar and mutilal moonan all dem big contracts tuh build and repair roads of whom they only hired indians, yuh think yuh would've been able tuh make that statement.
is the poor afro trinis who kept him in power over 30 yrs, and the most he gave them was huge tenements called (plannings) the ppl's mall, 10 days and NHA jobs, which payed almost next tuh nothing.
indians and syrians on the other hand got all kind of assistance from the govt, that's BC they had the things success is made of, land and business property.
trust meh horse, black urban ppl didn't even have ah prayer!! when the british left, all they left us was the clothes on our backs! my mother and her contemporaries were so poor, that some days they barely had food tuh eat, they had tuh watch their mothers work for shillings in white ppl's houses! while they lived in barracks yards ( poor tenaments) in ah one room bongalo sleepin in bedding, (not to mistaken with beds) going hungry many nights.
they( her contemporaries and her siblings) had tuh leave school and find work as early as fourteen in order to survive. ah guess you had no idea how harsh and callous the british was post slavery and colonial era eh? you think is just so ppl does become successful? it takes real know how, and some luck as well my friend.
even dr williams mother was ah maid back in those days like so many black women, back then black urban ppl, BTW who was the majority of the black population , were relegated tuh servitude, (maids, gardenrs and watchmen) barely could take care of their families, let alone educate them properly.
you under estimate culture and a lack thereof my friend! ah lack of culture mixed with poverty is the things failur is made of. when yuh lose yuh culture language and family structure, even dog become better than yuh.
no disrespect intended, but i doh remember little infant indian boys and girls being sold from up under their parents like puppies! but i do remember that happening during the 16 ,17 and 1800s tuh afro trinis , who mind you , worked the land for free and got nothing in return, not even ah start up money and land to live on after the british released them in the wild.
so what u are saying is that PNM and dr williams favored the indians more or rather provided the indians with more opportunities. So then y africans support pnm pnm pnm? Is it a result of slavery or rather a programming of pnm, that they must always resist rule by another race no matter what because they liken that to being back in slavery?
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JC..like you said , no disrespect intended.
how is "your" experience different than others, that you achieved all that you did under the same or worse conditions? Why is it that some could move on and build their own success and destiny while others rely on blaming everyone and everything but themselves? How much longer will slavery be used as it is? Were Africans the only ones enslaved throughout history, identity taken away, ruled by colonial "powers",forced into another mans system?
Help me understand so I can fully understand where you coming from.
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Ah boy TT, or should i say jackmanday. :devil: ah see yuh recover from dat cut skin on monday. doh worry , like black stalin said in his song " better day are coming". :devil:
fella you is de one who talk about how Manning go be better for the country etc. NOT ME! I said I was supporting UN-COP in the election!
Thanks you is ah real shape shifter!
Trinity Cross
not hiding and not afraid!
Hero Warrior
Online
Posts: 10149
Re: GENERAL ELECTIONS COMING SOON IN 2010 !
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2010, 07:12:25 AM » Quote Modify Remove
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Quote from: Jah Gol on March 31, 2010, 04:22:20 AM
I think he's bluffing with this election business.
Well if he is not bluffing, he is really and truly a stark raving lunatic!
While he does have some support, he has destroyed the PNM and I feel will lose a General Election if he does call it this year.
He has already started giving away money to certain key districts, but he is not giving himself enough time to give the appearance that he is trying to correct ills and missteps.
he gorn facking mad!
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indians benefited from under the pnm to an extent, but they worked hard to be where dey is. Not all indians had land, however the family structure instilled good moral upbringing and strong emphasis on education so that the next generations wont have to toil in the fields. Education was there for the Africans under the pnm as well. One group made their businesses starting from small, and made their careers from studies, another group benefited more from the PSA and other gov't jobs.
This is a real asshole statement. Re-read it and den come again! I would give you a hint eh, but you come jes like AB Trini dey...SERIOUSLY!
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indians benefited from under the pnm to an extent, but they worked hard to be where dey is. Not all indians had land, however the family structure instilled good moral upbringing and strong emphasis on education so that the next generations wont have to toil in the fields. Education was there for the Africans under the pnm as well. One group made their businesses starting from small, and made their careers from studies, another group benefited more from the PSA and other gov't jobs.
This is a real asshole statement. Re-read it and den come again! I would give you a hint eh, but you come jes like AB Trini dey...SERIOUSLY!
sorry if it appeared that way. no malice intended.
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indians benefited from under the pnm to an extent, but they worked hard to be where dey is. Not all indians had land, however the family structure instilled good moral upbringing and strong emphasis on education so that the next generations wont have to toil in the fields. Education was there for the Africans under the pnm as well. One group made their businesses starting from small, and made their careers from studies, another group benefited more from the PSA and other gov't jobs.
This is a real asshole statement. Re-read it and den come again! I would give you a hint eh, but you come jes like AB Trini dey...SERIOUSLY!
sorry if it appeared that way. no malice intended.
I understood the premise of what yuo were trying to say eh, and I agree to some extent, but the delivery was piss poor.
There are many black people who value familt values and worked hard to send their children to school etc. same as indians.
Ok that said, the merit in some of what you have said is simple and true. HINDUS in T&T (I have said this many times before0 have been discriminated against by the PNM , not racial but political as they have had access to the same education etc. but not the opportunities in civil service jobs etc. based on their voting patterns and hostility to the black leaders in the PNM.
One mistake the Eric Williams era PNM made was NOT trying to reach out and mend those divisions. what he did was make those wounds deeper and that is why we voted the way we did for all elections except 2!
I put the blame at Eric's ffet as he was in power, firmly entrenched and had the best opportunity to reach out with the State machinery.
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Anand Ramlogan studied law when he was a security guard. He worked and studied hard to become a star lawyer in T&T. Today he is Attorney General. Security Guard to AG. T&T is place like that, you could make it if you try. I respect him but I am alarmed by his ethnic agenda. Head counting is a clear indication of that.
Jah gol, if u talking about the article i dont see what u alarmed about.. most of what he said in that article i actually agreed with and is actually true.
I'm not just talking about this article but a particular trend I've seen with Mr. Ramlogan. This article in particular points shows racial statistics at stateboards. http://www.anandramlogan.com/node/445 (http://www.anandramlogan.com/node/445)
Why does it even matter ? Shouldn't be about an individuals' competence rather than what they look like. Many of his utterances are rooted in race. It is a major issue for him.
looking at an individual's competence is just one dimension to this thing. that is how one would assess the performance of the individual. but what about assessing the performance of the bureacratic function? a civil service (or more generally a public function) that is attuned to a subset of the population has room for improvement. that's the point i get out of ramlogan's focus on issues in the public sphere.
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Ok that said, the merit in some of what you have said is simple and true. HINDUS in T&T (I have said this many times before0 have been discriminated against by the PNM , not racial but political as they have had access to the same education etc. but not the opportunities in civil service jobs etc. based on their voting patterns and hostility to the black leaders in the PNM.
yuh talking pure ass....Do you know anything about Errol Mahabir and Kamaluddin Mohammed? The were deputy political leaders of the PNM. Get a clue cause people of East Indian descent played as prominent a role as people of african descent in the development of PNM.
Now to say that Hindus were discriminated against is a lie. Show me when where and how they were discriminated against. The one thing that you'll are in constant denial about is that within the temples and mandirs there is that hate filled rhetoric for example Sat Maraj.
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Ok that said, the merit in some of what you have said is simple and true. HINDUS in T&T (I have said this many times before0 have been discriminated against by the PNM , not racial but political as they have had access to the same education etc. but not the opportunities in civil service jobs etc. based on their voting patterns and hostility to the black leaders in the PNM.
yuh talking pure ass....Do you know anything about Errol Mahabir and Kamaluddin Mohammed? The were deputy political leaders of the PNM. Get a clue cause people of East Indian descent played as prominent a role as people of african descent in the development of PNM.
Now to say that Hindus were discriminated against is a lie. Show me when where and how they were discriminated against. The one thing that you'll are in constant denial about is that within the temples and mandirs there is that hate filled rhetoric for example Sat Maraj.
Ka-ka hole I said Hindus, now if you can show me ONE ficking Hindu from 1956 to now that was a memeber of the PNM cabinet I will say i was wrong, until den hush yuh cyat!
The numerous court cases show discrimination against Hindus1 If yuh doh like it dais your problem...facts is facts.
now I never addressed Indian racism, but that does not mean that i am unaware of devant and sat, I have made numerous posts about indian racism in T&T in particular when it pertains to sat maraj etc.
get yuh facts right.
PNM discriminated against Hindus....FACT!
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leh meh help yuh Mahabir was a Christian and Mohammed was ah muslim...ah waiting on yuh MEP
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Jarrette Narine i think was a hindu doh.
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leh meh help yuh Mahabir was a Christian and Mohammed was ah muslim...ah waiting on yuh MEP
How, when and where were Hindus discriminated against???
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jarrette was hardly a member of the inner circle
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leh meh help yuh Mahabir was a Christian and Mohammed was ah muslim...ah waiting on yuh MEP
How, when and where were Hindus discriminated against???
I will NOT go further than this ok, if you choose to be blind den so be it!
In sectors such as jobs, housing, health and scholarships.
Housing and media licensing is a huge issue where as Africans are preferred receiving these privileges.
Indians continuously protest against crime, which are usually targeted against those of Indian decent.
Rural Indians are long neglected where their constituencies are usually flooded out and underdeveloped. Whereas the agriculture sector is domininatly Indian, there have been complaints about the blatant neglect of this sector by the government.
All of the above is true! I done.
By the way, it is political discrimination more than racial, although the Hindu will say most ah we is indians so it racial.
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jarrette was hardly a member of the inner circle
I not taking sides in dis argument yuh know. Yuh just asked for one hindu that was a member of the PNM from 1956 to now. I just remembered him and dahs dat.
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jarrette was hardly a member of the inner circle
I not taking sides in dis argument yuh know. Yuh just asked for one hindu that was a member of the PNM from 1956 to now. I just remembered him and dahs dat.
I said Hindu member of a PNM cabinet!
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jarrette was hardly a member of the inner circle
I not taking sides in dis argument yuh know. Yuh just asked for one hindu that was a member of the PNM from 1956 to now. I just remembered him and dahs dat.
I said Hindu member of a PNM cabinet!
But wasnt he Minister of Agriculture?
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leh meh help yuh Mahabir was a Christian and Mohammed was ah muslim...ah waiting on yuh MEP
How, when and where were Hindus discriminated against???
I will NOT go further than this ok, if you choose to be blind den so be it!
In sectors such as jobs, housing, health and scholarships.
Housing and media licensing is a huge issue where as Africans are preferred receiving these privileges.
So you saying Africans? thought this was a Hindu/religious thing. Is this an example og Hindus being targeted?
Indians continuously protest against crime, which are usually targeted against those of Indian decent.
So you're using Indians and Hindus interchangeably. Again I ask where are Hindus being discriminated?
Rural Indians are long neglected where their constituencies are usually flooded out and underdeveloped. Whereas the agriculture sector is domininatly Indian, there have been complaints about the blatant neglect of this sector by the government.
Again are all rural East Indians Hindu?
All of the above is true! I done.
By the way, it is political discrimination more than racial, although the Hindu will say most ah we is indians so it racial.
Obsf**kation!!!!!
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jarrette was hardly a member of the inner circle
I not taking sides in dis argument yuh know. Yuh just asked for one hindu that was a member of the PNM from 1956 to now. I just remembered him and dahs dat.
I said Hindu member of a PNM cabinet!
But wasnt he Minister of Agriculture?
Health
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jarrette was hardly a member of the inner circle
I not taking sides in dis argument yuh know. Yuh just asked for one hindu that was a member of the PNM from 1956 to now. I just remembered him and dahs dat.
I said Hindu member of a PNM cabinet!
But wasnt he Minister of Agriculture?
Health
Not in the cabinet....never was in the inner circle at all! Fringe player
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Mep you soft....you real soft...in de head.
I said i done..go ahead
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woman doh like............
woman doh like..................
woman doh like
soooorft maaaaannn...
:rotfl:
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Mep you soft....you real soft...in de head.
I said i done..go ahead
Again you haven't answered my question..so the easiest way hurl insults....allyuh so cyah fool nobody
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i holding a PNM party card before MEp born probably.
PNM politically discriminate against Hindu's just recently the amount of court judgements against them shows the truth, except for those who want to comapre racism of indiand against balcks and vice versa
steups me eh have time for dat.
If you look at the infrastructure in the traditional Hindu areas you will see I am correct. they did punish tobago so for voting against PNM in de past too!
allyuh so/ yuh feel i am an indian with an axe to grind or what/ steups, i know I already said blindest man is one who eh eant to see.
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i holding a PNM party card before MEp born probably.
PNM politically discriminate against Hindu's just recently the amount of court judgements against them shows the truth, except for those who want to comapre racism of indiand against balcks and vice versa
Again there you go with open ended statements and no facts. If you at least know the judgments what were the Cause?
Were these cases of Mr So and So V the PNM or the Gov't of Trinidad.
Again keep talking yuh tripe eventually you will believe it.
If you look at the infrastructure in the traditional Hindu areas you will see I am correct. they did punish tobago so for voting against PNM in de past too!
What infrastructure describe it? Just the facts please.
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i holding a PNM party card before MEp born probably.
PNM politically discriminate against Hindu's just recently the amount of court judgements against them shows the truth, except for those who want to comapre racism of indiand against balcks and vice versa
Again there you go with open ended statements and no facts. If you at least know the judgments what were the Cause?
Were these cases of Mr So and So V the PNM or the Gov't of Trinidad.
Again keep talking yuh tripe eventually you will believe it.
If you look at the infrastructure in the traditional Hindu areas you will see I am correct. they did punish tobago so for voting against PNM in de past too!
What infrastructure describe it? Just the facts please.
sat maraj took the pnm govt to court for discrimination in the non issuing of radio and tv licenses. He won the case and they were granted the license. Two public sector workers (feroza ramjohn and ganga persad kisson) took the pnm/govt to court because they were bypassed for promotion only because of discrimination- they won the case.
Pnm/govt get real sue this last rounds, too bad is really we paying for it and not the pnm itself.
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sammy, besides that, if you look at the demographics of T&T there is absolutely no reason why hindus don't have a higher representation in police, fire and army, especially as officers and higher enlisted.
take civil service too.
Again I don't thi nk it is as racial as political. hindus traditionally vote against the PNM..so nutten for dem!
from housing to jobs to promotions etc. hindus get shaft
who vex f**king lorse, true is true
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Again I don't thi nk it is as racial as political. hindus traditionally vote against the PNM..so nutten for dem!
from housing to jobs to promotions etc. hindus get shaft
who vex f**king lorse, true is true
could any one tell me why Political leaders find this acceptable to deny people services for voting for another party
Sound like we copying Jamaican Politics
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sammy, besides that, if you look at the demographics of T&T there is absolutely no reason why hindus don't have a higher representation in police, fire and army, especially as officers and higher enlisted.
take civil service too.
Again I don't thi nk it is as racial as political. hindus traditionally vote against the PNM..so nutten for dem!
from housing to jobs to promotions etc. hindus get shaft
who vex f**king lorse, true is true
Ah doh think mutilal moonan and amar would agree wid yuh there meh byoi, also ram kirpalini and mr sammaroo who owned countless business especially behind the bridge.
ah don't think lennox pillai the gas station king ( who BTW still owes me $150 ) ! had loads of NP gas stations who were contracted by "the PNM govt" under williams and mr ramsingh who got loads of contracts wid the min of works and also housing tuh haul truck loads of raw material back and forth from road work and government construction sites would agree wid yuh either
through ramsingh nuff indians got rich, BC they made ah killing wid their big trucks hauling load of sand gravel and pitch all over the island where govt contracts were going on.
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Dr E. Williams refered to Indians as a 'stubborn and recalcitrant minority'.
2] When Bhadase Sagan Maraj/Maha Sabha started to build and operate primary schools, Eric Williams referred to the Hindu schools as 'cowsheds'. ... See More
3] Dr E. Williams said that Indians have ring worm in their brains.
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Dr E. Williams refered to Indians as a 'stubborn and recalcitrant minority'.
2] When Bhadase Sagan Maraj/Maha Sabha started to build and operate primary schools, Eric Williams referred to the Hindu schools as 'cowsheds'. ... See More
3] Dr E. Williams said that Indians have ring worm in their brains.
arm
be so kind as to let us know where these quotes could be found
is not that I dont believe you
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Dr E. Williams refered to Indians as a 'stubborn and recalcitrant minority'.
2] When Bhadase Sagan Maraj/Maha Sabha started to build and operate primary schools, Eric Williams referred to the Hindu schools as 'cowsheds'. ... See More
3] Dr E. Williams said that Indians have ring worm in their brains.
You have credible sources for these?
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Dr E. Williams refered to Indians as a 'stubborn and recalcitrant minority'.
2] When Bhadase Sagan Maraj/Maha Sabha started to build and operate primary schools, Eric Williams referred to the Hindu schools as 'cowsheds'. ... See More
3] Dr E. Williams said that Indians have ring worm in their brains.
You have credible sources for these?
Sat Maraj probably....
What he, meaning Trinity Cross, isn't going to tell you is that he is taking someone's response from an article in the guardian and posting it as if it were true.......
http://guardian.co.tt/news/politics/2010/03/28/he-touched-everything-tt
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Dr E. Williams refered to Indians as a 'stubborn and recalcitrant minority'.
2] When Bhadase Sagan Maraj/Maha Sabha started to build and operate primary schools, Eric Williams referred to the Hindu schools as 'cowsheds'. ... See More
3] Dr E. Williams said that Indians have ring worm in their brains.
You have credible sources for these?
Sat Maraj probably....
What he, meaning Trinity Cross, isn't going to tell you is that he is taking someone's response from an article in the guardian and posting it as if it were true.......
http://guardian.co.tt/news/politics/2010/03/28/he-touched-everything-tt
Now reading that there... TC whey is dat one? dai's ah real f**k up move fella... and do even come on some agent provocateur nonsense. absent some credible source it is plain irresponsible to be cutting and pasting some asshole diatribe and regurgitating it here where we trying to have a serious discussion.
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Dr E. Williams refered to Indians as a 'stubborn and recalcitrant minority'.
2] When Bhadase Sagan Maraj/Maha Sabha started to build and operate primary schools, Eric Williams referred to the Hindu schools as 'cowsheds'. ... See More
3] Dr E. Williams said that Indians have ring worm in their brains.
You have credible sources for these?
Sat Maraj probably....
What he, meaning Trinity Cross, isn't going to tell you is that he is taking someone's response from an article in the guardian and posting it as if it were true.......
http://guardian.co.tt/news/politics/2010/03/28/he-touched-everything-tt
or hor
Thanks MEP
and Andy Warhol was RIGHT, when he said in 1968, that "In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes."
Mr Logic has just got his ::)
and to know that malleable minds want to know such tripe ::)
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Hear nah I doh have to play nutten eric said it : http://www.drmorganjob.com/article_text.php?article_key=209
i remember my own mother saying she heard it herself!
It is in eric's own book where he called indians a stubborn recalcitrant minority. It was my own posting in the Guardian..PUHLEEZE!!! I doh need to copy nobody shit. Eric said it and he punished the shit out of Hindus for not supporting the PNM
as for the ring worm comment I read it in University...Solow, Barbara + Engerman, Stanley (eds). 1987. British Capitalism & Caribbean Slavery: the Legacy of Eric Williams.
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so mEp haul yuh dunce ass
~~~~ Yours truly, Mr. Logic!
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as for the ring worm comment I read it in University...Solow, Barbara + Engerman, Stanley (eds). 1987. British Capitalism & Caribbean Slavery: the Legacy of Eric Williams.
try again :devil:
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I always thought it was common knowledge in T&T that eric "hostile and recalcitrant minority" was easily his most infamous and damaging quote...its been used ad nauseum in history books
It was purely a political statement when he was lockin horns with the DLP back in the day...over the years it get conflated into race talk
it have plenty objectively written research papers that will support that....everybody know now that as brilliant as he was eric williams was ah arrogant cock
I never hear read de ringworm ting tho
...grab yuh popcorn, it long if yuh bored
http://www.trinicenter.com/Cudjoe/2002/May/ (http://www.trinicenter.com/Cudjoe/2002/May/)
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Hear nah I doh have to play nutten eric said it : http://www.drmorganjob.com/article_text.php?article_key=209
i remember my own mother saying she heard it herself!
It is in eric's own book where he called indians a stubborn recalcitrant minority. It was my own posting in the Guardian..PUHLEEZE!!! I doh need to copy nobody shit. Eric said it and he punished the shit out of Hindus for not supporting the PNM
as for the ring worm comment I read it in University...Solow, Barbara + Engerman, Stanley (eds). 1987. British Capitalism & Caribbean Slavery: the Legacy of Eric Williams.
You need to come better than that fella... you picking and pulling parts of things said out of context only fanning flames irresponsibly and not really adding anything to the discussion. Nutten against yuh mother, ah love she bad... but she is hardly an authority. Secondly, these aren't even Morgan Job's words... but rather quotes taken from Albert Gomes' book... which you then passing off as fact.
As for the ringworm comment... I can't dispute your source, but neither have you proven that this was the source. I could make up anything and tell you it in "Federal Income Tax: Code and Regulations, Selected SEctions. Marting B. Dickinson Editor"...
You'd have to be a bit more specific if that's the source you're offering up.
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so mEp haul yuh dunce ass
~~~~ Yours truly, Mr. Logic!
you really are a compounded jackass......first of all yuh cut and flippin paste like the sophomoric idiot that you are....then you find a link that contains a referent to the word "cowshed" and not knowing the history of the author and his grievance with Eric Williams you post it as gospel truth or should I say gita truth.
If you were capable of independent thought I'd suggest you undertake some research into the author but that's not on you agenda I suppose.
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....everybody know now that as brilliant as he was eric williams was ah arrogant cock
as ya say that
I wonder if he had outside chirren and if they does post on here :devil:
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....everybody know now that as brilliant as he was eric williams was ah arrogant cock
as ya say that
I wonder if he had outside chirren and if they does post on here :devil:
I wonder if he wife had ah extra nanny and if it does post on here... why yuh doh hush yuh cyat sometimes?
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....everybody know now that as brilliant as he was eric williams was ah arrogant cock
as ya say that
I wonder if he had outside chirren and if they does post on here :devil:
I wonder if he wife had ah extra nanny and if it does post on here... why yuh doh hush yuh cyat sometimes?
and all your likkle friends on here does go
gee gee gee
Bravo BIG MAN BRAVO it must really make you feel real big
too bad ya EI/EQ smaller than your shoe size
there is a rumour on here that your IQ BIGGER that the combined membership of Mensa
if that is so I want to be one of your ONLINE buddies also
Ya know
you must think that during the prsidential debate that Obama and McCain must have cussed themselves up and that the network executives dubbed in what we heard
Keep it up man
YOUR likkle friends NEED you on here as they cant lead themselves they have to follow
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too bad ya EI smaller than your shoe size
uhh,,Employment Insurance??
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Hear nah I doh have to play nutten eric said it : http://www.drmorganjob.com/article_text.php?article_key=209
i remember my own mother saying she heard it herself!
It is in eric's own book where he called indians a stubborn recalcitrant minority. It was my own posting in the Guardian..PUHLEEZE!!! I doh need to copy nobody shit. Eric said it and he punished the shit out of Hindus for not supporting the PNM
as for the ring worm comment I read it in University...Solow, Barbara + Engerman, Stanley (eds). 1987. British Capitalism & Caribbean Slavery: the Legacy of Eric Williams.
You need to come better than that fella... you picking and pulling parts of things said out of context only fanning flames irresponsibly and not really adding anything to the discussion. Nutten against yuh mother, ah love she bad... but she is hardly an authority. Secondly, these aren't even Morgan Job's words... but rather quotes taken from Albert Gomes' book... which you then passing off as fact.
As for the ringworm comment... I can't dispute your source, but neither have you proven that this was the source. I could make up anything and tell you it in "Federal Income Tax: Code and Regulations, Selected SEctions. Marting B. Dickinson Editor"...
You'd have to be a bit more specific if that's the source you're offering up.
:rotfl: Way sah......shouldn't this be in the memorable SW quotations thread?
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:rotfl: Way sah......shouldn't this be in the memorable SW quotations thread?
Lol...nah man, I eh mean it like dat. Me and he family cool. Jury still out on he doh, lol