After Bobby Sookram.

[kicker]

Good post VB.

The indian goalie for Fatima was Christopher Sagar....and yes he was very good.

About the mixed race thing, historically if you were mixed with black, you were generally regarded by society as black.....That's changing but it still has a big effect on how we categorize people today...

And yeah you make a good point- in Trini as a non black person in football it was (might still be) more difficult to get respect..... I have some 2nd hand anecdotal evidence to back that up.

[Deeks]

This is a very good post. I have mentioned this before. But most people tend to stay clear of this topic.

I think the main input is parental. If they don't get the support from their parent, they will not want to make it a career choice. On the other hand, the TFA over the years has not put forth a plans to encourage Indian youngsters to stay in the game after high school. The funny thing is,  JW has been at the helm of the TFA for how long?

Look football is a a rough sport. You have to take blows and you have to give blows. I don't know if that is another reason why Indian parents don't encorage their kids to continue playing.

This does not pertain only to footbal but in T&F, rugby, basketball, netball, swimming, field hockey. Volley-ball maybe different, I am not sure. On the women side, female participation is almost none existent. Why? Is this situation the same in Suriname and Guyana. We should compare.

Some times when people say we can never be like JA and US in sports, I tend to agree. Those countries use their entire talent pool. We only scratching the surface.

[Dutty]

what happens next defies logic.

our player running around hard to collect back he ball from his issued breed. Ramdoo get to de ball first, mash de ball, BREED the man coming back to collect his ball, then tell him "Take back yuh breed". 


what make it worse is the man who take the initial breed went back and thank him for de bail out! de crowd rolling. that was stink, if he read dis he go know who write dis..

although Trinbagonians does big up ball trickery as the ultimate in skill too much....ah woulda love to see dat

[weary1969]

Ask Sat y

[Deeks]

I did not see Bobby Sookram play, but I heard he was damn good. I have seen many good Indian players in TT. The best I have seen is Steve Khan(mid-field/forward) from South. I think he played for Hurricains. He had good skills and distributed the ball well. When TT beat Mex. 4-0 in Haiti, he was a catalyst in one of the goal. he came in as a sub in the mid-field. He was sent in to play a defensive mid. He harrassed a player and took the ball and  pass to Gally. Then Gally to Steve David. Goal. he played a couple of time after for TT. I don't know where he is now.

[Sando]

Sean is actually Dogla. It doh really matter to me. But you notice if an Indian is mixed, he not Indian. but if ah man have AFrican he Black. I guess if Dwarika is not Indian, then Tiger Woods is not African American??

Sean was VERY gifted. He was in my year. I remember eating beat in small goal and only mashing he foot. Ah telling him sorry for de mash foot and he only smiling and saying it Ok :-)

Sean should have gotten a Univ schol, for the life of me, can't understand why he didn't. He also had a child at a very young age. I believe the mum had a child for Latas and another national footballer as well, so you could only imagine the kinda ball players dem is.

Both of Sean's sons have already played for TT at U-16 level. But have since disappeared from local football. Well dat is ...I doh hear about dem no more.

None of you have bothered to mention that for YEARS if you came from a non African or privileged background, you were treated differently by other palyers and sometimes the Coach as well, former standouts, Graeme Rodriguez (Fatima) and Shearwood (Pres??) have mentioned this.

I remember David Mohammed - the cricketer, captaining South U-19s (football) around 1984. I was convinced he would make the national youth team. You know de man eh even make trials???

As an Indian, I can tell you that  a lot of Indians - especially those outside of POS are ver sensitive of how they have been treated by African in certain elements of society. So if they get marginalised in football, the first thing they might do is say f&^% dem black ppl and go on to something else, instead of fighting it out. I eh trying to start no race ting here, just telling you like it is.

I lived in POS, saw Indians playing football but the reality is, only  a few were good. I was not one of dem :-) but ah used to fight it, had to bring down Brian Lara once, becz he was mad enough to stop and wait for me so he could beat and proceed. Had to let him know right of de bat who he faddah was. We lose on penalty kicks...

If Jagdehosing is not Indian, then how de f^% he end up with that name. Granted he look like a Zulu warrior, but he name is Jagdeosingh. As ah say if he faddah was Chinee and he muddah look like Rita Marley, nobody woulda say he not black.

I want to believe in the East  and the South where there is a higher concentration of Indians, you can find talent. There are probably a number of reasons why they don't come to the fore, not just one.

Lastly I remember an Indian on the bench for TT in the 80s, I think it was TT vs. the Italian U-23 (I could be wrong about which game). However, it was at the QPO. I pointed it out to some black friends and they were nonplussed. I was surprised no ass.

oh yeah, I also remember some very gifted Indian GKs for St. Agustine, Naps and Pres. never saw them in the national set up. Ironically years later, an Indian GK from Fatima played for the national U-19 squad. Ah forget he name. But ah sure sammo remember.

VB

 

Good post VB...

I remember we played a school side in a fete match made up from students from Debe, Penal, Barapore and other areas from deep south and they had atleast 8 of them indians on that side capable of making national trials for the least. I beleive the TTFF should show some sort of expanded scout system to encourage them youngsters from south mainly to stay in football, they are very willing but no encouragement, a national training camp in south should also be active on a regular basis because to travel up north will be an up hill task, especially everyday and I dont know if the TTFF will help with expenses and passege etc...

[elan]

As many people mention the committment lacking from the indo-trinidadian(hate separating ethnicity), maybe because of lack of parental support or otherwise. I look at many of the indo-trinidadian and physically they are not as muscular as the afro-trinidadian (damn I hate this).

Right now we have an Indo-trinidadian at our college and the fella good. Small, but real skilfull and committed. He still under twenty I believe, but he small and nashy but very committed to the game. Have to talk to him and see where he want to take his game. I feel (after seeing Akile edwards and them) he could have a go at our youth team.

[elan]

Anyone here from south remember when Andy left Barrackpore and came to Princes Town? Strong fella, very skilfull.

[dinho]

As many people mention the committment lacking from the indo-trinidadian(hate separating ethnicity), maybe because of lack of parental support or otherwise. I look at many of the indo-trinidadian and physically they are not as muscular as the afro-trinidadian (damn I hate this).

Right now we have an Indo-trinidadian at our college and the fella good. Small, but real skilfull and committed. He still under twenty I believe, but he small and nashy but very committed to the game. Have to talk to him and see where he want to take his game. I feel (after seeing Akile edwards and them) he could have a go at our youth team.

i wanted to bring this into the discussion but it mightn't be de most PC ting to say, but say wha..

maybe is genetic??

ah mean, how many exceptional ballers it have in de world? I never see ah Maharaj or Patel sweat champions league.. Exceptional indian ballers are in the great minority.

not trying to discount the contributory factors mentioned in this thread which I agree with to an extent but the whole of India and Pakistan doh produce no ballers of note so at some point we hadda ask wha going on when you have EPL ballers from all New Zealand.

And this thing about indian ballers being marginalized because of race I dont agree with..

I never see that. If yuh good, yuh good and the most ah man go say is, "waay, dat fellah have real touches for ah indian". But all preconcieved notions go out the window when yuh bring it on the football field. Yuh could be color green with ah purple head and flourescent pink dreadlocks, if yuh good enough yuh go make it.

[100% Barataria]

Part of what you are saying Omar can be attributed to cricket being a more dominant and popular sport in the sub-continent, thus, as long as that continues, the 1st time you see a Baller of Indian descent in a Tier 1 league it is more likely that he maybe from TT, Guyana, Suriname, Holland, or some other "footballing" nation wherein there is a fraction of the Indian diaspora.

I can't comment on the marginalization some say has occurred in TT, but would be very interested in hearing some stories.

As a dougla mehself ah neva feel marginalize, ah mean, look at de labourers, true "united colours of Beneton" side dat    Kicker, ah decreasing de value ah de thread again, 

[kicker]

Part of what you are saying Omar can be attributed to cricket being a more dominant and popular sport in the sub-continent, thus, as long as that continues, the 1st time you see a Baller of Indian descent in a Tier 1 league it is more likely that he maybe from TT, Guyana, Suriname, Holland, or some other "footballing" nation wherein there is a fraction of the Indian diaspora.

I can't comment on the marginalization some say has occurred in TT, but would be very interested in hearing some stories.

As a dougla mehself ah neva feel marginalize, ah mean, look at de labourers, true "united colours of Beneton" side dat    Kicker, ah decreasing de value ah de thread again, 

Dong de drain boy....... Just waitin' fuh FF tuh deliver the final blow... 

[Observer]

Joel Rahim 79 & early 80's

[just cool]

Well i strongly believe   SHERVAN  PRAGG    would've been the 2nd indian player after bobby sookram if he didn't die in that car crash some 25 yrs ago, i think was in 1984.

 that fella was the exception, he was fast skillful with a great eye for goals, plus his name was calling every day in the sports news ( either for cricket or football ) him and sashry roberts the swimmer .

 he also played cricket very well and was on the national youth team, i don't remember if he was a contemporary of brian lara. but the best indian player out of trini IMO.

Indians are encouraged by their families to envolve their selves in cricket or horse racing ( as jockeys ) my observation.  anyway that was a boss player.  may God rest his soul.

[weary1969]

Brudder Pragg was a cricketer

[just cool]

Brudder Pragg was a cricketer

I think you should go back and revisit his life. the man was a boss footballer and played in the intercol several times, i cyar remember who he played for , but i think yuh forget since he died such a long time ago, but no weary , the man was a boss footballer and an exceptional cricketer as well.

[asylumseeker]

As many people mention the committment lacking from the indo-trinidadian(hate separating ethnicity), maybe because of lack of parental support or otherwise. I look at many of the indo-trinidadian and physically they are not as muscular as the afro-trinidadian (damn I hate this).

Right now we have an Indo-trinidadian at our college and the fella good. Small, but real skilfull and committed. He still under twenty I believe, but he small and nashy but very committed to the game. Have to talk to him and see where he want to take his game. I feel (after seeing Akile edwards and them) he could have a go at our youth team.

i wanted to bring this into the discussion but it mightn't be de most PC ting to say, but say wha..

maybe is genetic??

ah mean, how many exceptional ballers it have in de world? I never see ah Maharaj or Patel sweat champions league.. Exceptional indian ballers are in the great minority.

not trying to discount the contributory factors mentioned in this thread which I agree with to an extent but the whole of India and Pakistan doh produce no ballers of note so at some point we hadda ask wha going on when you have EPL ballers from all New Zealand.

And this thing about indian ballers being marginalized because of race I dont agree with..

I never see that. If yuh good, yuh good and the most ah man go say is, "waay, dat fellah have real touches for ah indian". But all preconcieved notions go out the window when yuh bring it on the football field. Yuh could be color green with ah purple head and flourescent pink dreadlocks, if yuh good enough yuh go make it.

Omar, we also don't see a world of Maori (or Samoans or Tongans) running out for New Zealand.

Indian football (as we have discussed elsewhere on the forum) does not have the roots that support the kinda influx to the EPL you suggest. Hence, I doh think dahis a fair call. (unless we expecting them to run in from Kenya or Uganda or elsewhere?)  Buh, ah sure if we ask Cyd whether he see any players in India that could flex in de Pro League he go bawl out YEH.

I hasten to add there is a difference between genetics and diet/dietetics.

[FF]

Dong de drain boy....... Just waitin' fuh FF tuh deliver the final blow... 

look it here..

Soca Labourers... not just trini masons and carpenters... but labourers from around de world!!

Big up! 

[palos]

Jeewan "Spannah" Boochoon

[sub1]

Brudder Pragg was a cricketer

And a very very good footballer also. The tiny village of Boissiere produce some fine footballers of indian heritage. Ask Dwarika whey he father from. If anybody here know bout "flooks" I have a big up for them. As dangerous a striker as there has been in T&T.
NO its not genetics I really believe its choice. I cant speak for other villages but the top ballers coming out of Boissiere village were 50/50 . And we produced the likes of conrad Taylor , the Sorzanos, dumas the aforementioned "Flooks" the henrys(Ken, Sharke) Bharat and others including myself. IF our Indo community really take to the field in full it would really increse the talent pool. But given the choice cricket will always get first preference.

[Coop's]

I did not see Bobby Sookram play, but I heard he was damn good. I have seen many good Indian players in TT. The best I have seen is Steve Khan(mid-field/forward) from South. I think he played for Hurricains. He had good skills and distributed the ball well. When TT beat Mex. 4-0 in Haiti, he was a catalyst in one of the goal. he came in as a sub in the mid-field. He was sent in to play a defensive mid. He harrassed a player and took the ball and  pass to Gally. Then Gally to Steve David. Goal. he played a couple of time after for TT. I don't know where he is now.

         Steve Khan resides in Canada,a very close friend of mines,if you all look at our Photo Gallery you will see us on the same national team together,i call him sometimes to get his thoughts on our Football,he is still involved in a bit of coaching out there,Observer might be able to tell you all a little more about him because they played together back home.     

[Sando]

Anton Ramnarine, Vijay Samaroo, Venosh Maraj, Randy Ramcharan, Khalil Mathura, Javed Mohammed, Chad Dharamath, Mark Ramkhelawan, Ryan Dipsingh, Rete Roop, Marlon Ramsumair and Terrance Ramsaroop was all part of T&T in some way, either pro club, youth team and super league team.

Isn't Jason Devenish, Kevaughn Connell, Andre Boucaud, Matthew Bartholomew, Scott Sealy and Chad De Freitas half or mix with indian ?

Dwarika, Jagdeosingh and Rahim was mis with indians too.

Was Anthony Sherwood he only Chiness to play for T&T... ?

NEWS from Flex U-17 site.

Trinidad and Tobago Technical Director, Professor Rene Simoes, is now a happier man.The Brazilian has been pleased by the form shown by his three latest recruits, Venosh Maraj, Raphael Jones and Kerwyn Belgrave. The trio was drafted into the side earlier this week after impressing Simoes while playing for a Simpaul's Travel Service All Star team against Team 2001 last weekend. Maraj is a skillful midfielder, Jones a defender standing at 6 foot seven inches and Belgrave is a goalkeeper. In fact, Simoes is optimistic the new boys will be able to maker the final cut and eventually represent their country in next month's FIFA Under 17 World Championships. "The three players who have come in are very talented," Simoes said yesterday.


Crab Connection's Anthony Guppy, right, holds off Ryan Dipsingh of Joe Public in Day Two action in the BMobile Superleague football tournament. ...Author: AZLAN MOHAMMED (2008).

[Babalawo]

As many people mention the committment lacking from the indo-trinidadian(hate separating ethnicity), maybe because of lack of parental support or otherwise. I look at many of the indo-trinidadian and physically they are not as muscular as the afro-trinidadian (damn I hate this).

Right now we have an Indo-trinidadian at our college and the fella good. Small, but real skilfull and committed. He still under twenty I believe, but he small and nashy but very committed to the game. Have to talk to him and see where he want to take his game. I feel (after seeing Akile edwards and them) he could have a go at our youth team.

You have to mine how you saying that cuz not all indians smalley.  And smallness have nothing to do with skills cuz Chris Birchall and CornellGlen reall smaller than me.  I can swear i can push them off the ball , but its skills that will keep me from doing that to dem.

[Deeks]

When it come to football, yes, size is an asset, but skill and speed are what matters. TT have had many small players who were great. Leo Brewster, Sammy Lwellyn, Clibert Lennard, Dwarika, Kendall Walkes, Mike Grayson. Thes guys were not big guys. They all has speed and skill.

[rotatopoti3]

AH pretty sure Shervan Pragg was ah QRC boy...

what about Ramesh Ramdeen from QRC...dat man was deadly

and Jason Gatt from CIC..

[weary1969]

Yep Pragg was from QRC and his future was in cricket if d car accident did not lick him up

[Bakes]

Omar, we also don't see a world of Maori (or Samoans or Tongans) running out for New Zealand.

Indian football (as we have discussed elsewhere on the forum) does not have the roots that support the kinda influx to the EPL you suggest. Hence, I doh think dahis a fair call. (unless we expecting them to run in from Kenya or Uganda or elsewhere?)  Buh, ah sure if we ask Cyd whether he see any players in India that could flex in de Pro League he go bawl out YEH.

I hasten to add there is a difference between genetics and diet/dietetics.

Good call... we don't see Indians and Pakistanis in the EPL for the same reason we don't see Trinis in the NBA (Jabbar, Bibby and Magloire don't count).  There simply isn't enough participation, structural support on the grassroots level, and not enough official investment into basketball in Trinidad sufficient to develop the pool of athletes that would then go on to nurture NBA-level talent.  Similar lack on participation, support and investment in football in India/Pakistan sufficient to develop world-class talent.  Genetics have absolutely no part in that equation.

[Anbrat]

I did not see Bobby Sookram play, but I heard he was damn good. I have seen many good Indian players in TT. The best I have seen is Steve Khan(mid-field/forward) from South. I think he played for Hurricains. He had good skills and distributed the ball well. When TT beat Mex. 4-0 in Haiti, he was a catalyst in one of the goal. he came in as a sub in the mid-field. He was sent in to play a defensive mid. He harrassed a player and took the ball and  pass to Gally. Then Gally to Steve David. Goal. he played a couple of time after for TT. I don't know where he is now.

Steve Khan played with Milan in the SFA and is now residing in Ontario, Canada.

[Quags]

It had a wicked Indian use to play for Arima Senior in the early ninties from the congo .Called Jazzy ,best player on the team ,this was in Trotman days eh .Sam should remember him .

[TrinInfinite]

Anton Ramnarine, Vijay Samaroo, Venosh Maraj, Randy Ramcharan, Khalil Mathura, Javed Mohammed, Chad Dharamath, Mark Ramkhelawan, Ryan Dipsingh, Rete Roop, Marlon Ramsumair and Terrance Ramsaroop was all part of T&T in some way, either pro club, youth team and super league team.

Isn't Jason Devenish, Kevaughn Connell, Andre Boucaud, Matthew Bartholomew, Scott Sealy and Chad De Freitas half or mix with indian ?

Dwarika, Jagdeosingh and Rahim was mis with indians too.

Was Anthony Sherwood he only Chiness to play for T&T... ?

NEWS from Flex U-17 site.

Trinidad and Tobago Technical Director, Professor Rene Simoes, is now a happier man.The Brazilian has been pleased by the form shown by his three latest recruits, Venosh Maraj, Raphael Jones and Kerwyn Belgrave. The trio was drafted into the side earlier this week after impressing Simoes while playing for a Simpaul's Travel Service All Star team against Team 2001 last weekend. Maraj is a skillful midfielder, Jones a defender standing at 6 foot seven inches and Belgrave is a goalkeeper. In fact, Simoes is optimistic the new boys will be able to maker the final cut and eventually represent their country in next month's FIFA Under 17 World Championships. "The three players who have come in are very talented," Simoes said yesterday.


Crab Connection's Anthony Guppy, right, holds off Ryan Dipsingh of Joe Public in Day Two action in the BMobile Superleague football tournament. ...Author: AZLAN MOHAMMED (2008).

on a side note,  whappen to these players simoes spoke of?

God is de BOSS....

[saga pinto]

sam,

wha bout arnold dwarika and kendall jagdeosingh? dem play for t&t in recent times.

jagdeosingh ent 100% indian and so is dwarika,come again!!!