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Author Topic: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!  (Read 14420 times)

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Offline WestCoast

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2008, 05:12:33 PM »
West Coast, i agree with truetrini, it is obvious you have an axe to grind with Bush / USA
Jay, my point is Only referring to "American Foreign Policy" concerning Many puppet governments that they have supported, who in turn have Brutalised their own citizens, and that is a very sad fact. When I was young growing up in TnT many south american countries fell into that catergory. Foreign Policy Only.

Having said that, I was amazed recently when my brother-in-law in Florida needed triple bypass surgery and got it within weeks, which sometimes is not possible, even here in Canada. There are many good things about the Domestic Political Policies within The USA that I admire over Canada's.

let me also add that I have got very comfortable in this capitalist/socialist/canadian system that I live in and would not want to live in Cuba. Having said that I have to admire the people of Cuba who have attained things for themselves within their system, despite the hardships. support for the under dog I guess.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 05:51:07 PM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

leroy

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2008, 06:40:35 PM »
West Coast, i agree with truetrini, it is obvious you have an axe to grind with Bush / USA


let me also add that I have got very comfortable in this capitalist/socialist/canadian system that I live in and would not want to live in Cuba. Having said that I have to admire the people of Cuba who have attained things for themselves within their system, despite the hardships. support for the under dog I guess.
I for one could not live under fidel regime.Yet I respect and admire the cuban people.

truetrini

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #92 on: February 24, 2008, 07:13:04 PM »
Look at this perspective on "Cuban accomplishments:"



Castro's 'accomplishments' are written in ashes

Luis Aguilar León. Published Thursday, May 24, 2001 in the Miami Herald

The most potent drug in the world, hence the most enticing, can't be bought on the street or in a pharmacy. It is power.

Neither liquor, nor sex nor money can equal the strength, taste and pleasure of power -- es- pecially ab- solute power, which, as Lord Acton wrote, corrupts absolutely, offering the fruits of all vices and even some virtues.

Throughout history, many have been corrupted by power and very few have willingly renounced it. Consequently, it falls upon the world to restrain tyranny. Instead, all too many support it, such as those who laud the "accomplishments'' of Fidel Castro, despite his more than 40 years of despotism, recent signs of dementia and almost single-handed crushing of the Cuban spirit.

Such people ignore the testimony of thousands upon thousands of Cubans about their oppression and torment. They prefer to cite as "accomplishments'' the fine education enjoyed by Cuban children, which can be summarized by their obligatory motto, "We shall be like Che!,'' or the free health care, a real bargain, given the absence of even the most basic medical resources.

In all fairness, no one can deny the true positive accomplishment that Castro managed in his initial revolution: the rise of nationalism, fueled by his call for honesty in government, his promise to give land to the peasants and his vow to ensure freedom for all. But these proved early to be nothing more than planned steps toward absolute power.

Cuba has only one type of education for children: brainwashing. It lacks housing for its people. Its sugar crop consistently falls below the direst predictions. Its peasants are denied land ownership. And none may question the government.

History provides plenty of examples of just how fragile and relative are the "accomplishments'' of a despotic government. Consider one totalitarian leader, deemed mad by many, who ended unemployment, gave his people national pride, modernized communications and inspired the production of cheap cars, well within the financial reach of most. The same man also moved to protect the environment, adopting laws to reduce chimney smoke and clean the air. Should we not cheer such a leader and hail his accomplishments as a model?

Decidedly not. For his "accomplishments'' took place during the fleeting time in which he had the absolute power to enact his most minor ideas. This same leader also decided to purge his people of an "inferior race,'' sent its members to concentration camps and exterminated six million of them. He plunged the world into a global war that killed millions more and left his country in ashes and ruins.

Few men exposed this sort of leader more honestly than the great German novelist Eric Maria Remarque. Remarque made a film documentary on Adolf Hitler that premiered in Cuba in 1956. It begins with some glorious music by Brahms and Wagner playing over beautiful scenes of pre-Hitler Germany. Soon appear the fanatical Nazi rallies with thousands of young people saluting with outstretched arms while shouting, "Sieg heil!'' Then follow the early military victories won by the Third Reich. Suddenly, the music stops, as the camera tracks slowly through a city in ruins, over which appear the words Berlin 1945, along with a vague, barely visible shadow that forms the profile of Hitler. Finally, a solemn voice breaks the silence by repeating a single line: "If you seek his monument, look around.''

Some day, the Cubans will embark on the reconstruction of their homeland. They might be wise to leave for posterity one small part of it in shambles, and within this a statue of Castro marked by the very line: "If you seek his monument, look around.''

Copyright 2001 Miami Herald

leroy

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #93 on: February 24, 2008, 07:21:24 PM »
auu auuuu is it for Cubans to judge or the world community?, Fidel & Cuba achieve alot.He as defied the odds by using his Charisma to grip cuba for decades,He end the aparthede regime in Southern Africa,and alot of internal knix knox such as Health,Education etc.When compared to other latin american countries during the 80's era cubans were not on top but they were surviving.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 07:23:24 PM by leroy »

truetrini

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2008, 07:44:11 PM »
Castro ended arpatheid in South Africa?

I never knew this.  Imagine the things you learn on this forum  ::) 

fella first yuh implied that de people and dem god, Jesus was involved in homosexuality...then yuh backed away, now yuh claiming that Castro ended de S. African system of arpatheid/

Yuh either on drugs or yuh jes flat out mis-informed.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: Adolf Hitler/Benito Mussolini or Fidel Castro...
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2008, 07:44:31 PM »
which one of these three Charismatic leaders is more interesting,and serve a purpose?
Leroy, ya serious there?
 :thinking:
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
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leroy

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2008, 07:48:15 PM »
Cuba certainly gave the Southern Afrikans inspiration, when they sign the treaty with South Africa to pull out.No DOUBT.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 07:49:56 PM by leroy »

truetrini

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2008, 07:54:53 PM »
Are you discussing Cuban troops in Angola?   In the 1960"s???

leroy

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2008, 07:58:59 PM »
well if I remember correctly they were there until 1989.Yes Cubans troops in Angola.

truetrini

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2008, 08:00:45 PM »
well if I remember correctly they were there until 1989.Yes Cubans troops in Angola.

Ok from that stand point I concede...sorry, be more precise in yuh comments nah.

Yes if I remember carefully about 40-50,000 cubans was dey...dat is plenty yuh know.

leroy

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #100 on: February 24, 2008, 08:02:09 PM »
 This article needs additional citations for verification.
Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (January 2008)

After gaining independence from Portugal, Angola became entangled in a power struggle among three major groups: MPLA, FNLA and UNITA. These groups quickly became involved in a civil war and in the wider Cold War tensions between the United States and the Soviet Union. UNITA and FNLA were mainly supported by the United States, South Africa and Zaire, while Cuba and the Soviet Union backed the MPLA. Cuba eventually deployed troops to Angola, leading to the MPLA's victory in the civil war and effectively foiling South Africa’s and the United States’ attempts to keep or to remove the MPLA from power. Cuba successfully stabilized and supported the Angolan government against the UNITA insurgency, backed by South Africa and the US. This was instrumental in the independence of Namibia and eventually in the decline of the Apartheid regime.[1][2]

Taken from Wikipedia...

Offline JayTheWrecker

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #101 on: February 24, 2008, 08:03:12 PM »
Castro had no business sending thousands of troops to Angola to help "end the apartheid regime in South Africa"

that is just as criminal as Bush sending thousands of troops to Iraq to help end the Saddam regime

the double standards being employed by some here is appalling imo

do you fellas even acknowledge that Castro is a murdering dictator?
Son, there's only two things that matter in this life. Family and Football. Everything else is bullshit

truetrini

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2008, 08:06:14 PM »
Castro had no business sending thousands of troops to Angola to help "end the apartheid regime in South Africa"

that is just as criminal as Bush sending thousands of troops to Iraq to help end the Saddam regime

the double standards being employed by some here is appalling imo

do you fellas even acknowledge that Castro is a murdering dictator?

I think he is a dictator, but in truth he has not embarked on a crusade to murder scores of Cubans, but he has killed..yes...so by definition he is a murdering dictator, especially for the way he has killed the Cuban peopl;s spirit!

leroy

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2008, 08:07:04 PM »
r u saying that aparthe1d is ok?

Offline JayTheWrecker

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2008, 08:19:23 PM »
leroy, of course not, but you're missing the point, or rather you can see the point but you don't want to acknowledge it

Castro didn't send troops to Angola to help liberate black South Africans, just like Bush didn't send troops to Iraq to help liberate oppressed Iraqis under Saddam

just answer me these questions

do you accept that Castro has committed the following crimes

imprisonment without trail
murder
torture
military invasion of a foreign country

and if your answer is yes, then how come Castro gets a pass for commiting these crimes yet Bush doesn't?

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leroy

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2008, 08:26:22 PM »
you r right.I cannot argue with you,but one thing i.e USA will take Cuba without one shot being fired.

Offline JayTheWrecker

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #106 on: February 24, 2008, 08:29:30 PM »
Castro had no business sending thousands of troops to Angola to help "end the apartheid regime in South Africa"

that is just as criminal as Bush sending thousands of troops to Iraq to help end the Saddam regime

the double standards being employed by some here is appalling imo

do you fellas even acknowledge that Castro is a murdering dictator?

I think he is a dictator, but in truth he has not embarked on a crusade to murder scores of Cubans, but he has killed..yes...so by definition he is a murdering dictator, especially for the way he has killed the Cuban peopl;s spirit!

i don't know about that truetrini, Castro murdered plenty, maybe not so many at home, but certainly in Africa. I'm talking the extermination kind of murder
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #107 on: February 24, 2008, 08:55:03 PM »


In your opinion, is Bush a "brutal murderous dictator"?

Bush has murdered plenty, but he is no dictator. That is a fact. Of course if he suddenly somehow managed to abolish the US constitution and get the armed forces to support him in setting up a police state with no elections, no opposition, in other words oversee the US in the same manner as Castro, and like Castro when he is too old to govern, hand over power to his brother Jeb,then i will change my opinion and acknowledge Bush to be a dictator

you see i have no problem acknowledging Bush to being a bastard who is guilty of murder and torture etc.

it's a just a shame that many refuse to acknowledge the same about Castro


And I have no problem saying that although Castro managed to wrest power from an American-backed puppet (who twice circumvented the Cuban constitution to oust  a democratically elected president) by using the almost universal  support of the people and armed forces of Cuba, and steering Cuba away from the machinations of successive American regimes which cynically attempted to orchestrate control of that soverign nation through numerous assasination attempts and making a mockery of democracy by calling for elections as a a rigged tool for  legitimizing the puppet of their choice, I still had no problem reffering to  to him as a despot.




« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 09:18:56 PM by ZANDOLIE »
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #108 on: February 24, 2008, 09:10:58 PM »
Castro had no business sending thousands of troops to Angola to help "end the apartheid regime in South Africa"

that is just as criminal as Bush sending thousands of troops to Iraq to help end the Saddam regime

the double standards being employed by some here is appalling imo

do you fellas even acknowledge that Castro is a murdering dictator?

Your position is consistent on both Castro and Bush, yes they have both been responsible for appalling acts.

However while Castro used the classic tools of repression, Bush et al employs the tools of subversion, relying on the complacency of the American people to proclaim freedom and democracy on one side of his mouth while quietly pushing one clandestine anti-freedom agenda after the next. I dislike Bush et asl not neccessarily because of the itinerary but the use of spin and doublespeak to subvert democracy.


« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 09:20:29 PM by ZANDOLIE »
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truetrini

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #109 on: February 24, 2008, 09:18:21 PM »
Zandolie yuh is something else oui.

I doh feel dat JAy go disagree with what yuh saying.

I have a different view about de Whole Angola ting eh.  I feel dat was jes de way de USA and de Soviet Union did fight each other.

The USA did not oppose S. Africa too much, in fact they routinely gave scholarships tuh S. Africa students, indeed England maintained good relations with S. Africa for many years during apartheid years.  In University I studied, albeit briefly, the whole relationship between de US and S. Africa.  and it wasnt pretty.  South Africa did not support communism, so they were viwd as an ally by the USA.  

One should also remember that the USA during the perios of apartheid was serving up its own barand of deparation of the races..jim crow etc.

While the UN as eary as the 1960's renounced apartheid and placed sanctions on S Africa, that did not stop de USA and England from having favourable trade relations with that country.

The US even had a NASA station down dey.  Hell de Un even voted to expel S. Africa from de UN, but England, USA and france reject dat as dem had excellent trade relations with S Africa ( I know ah repeating mehself eh, but ah making ah point)  England wanted s African gold, USA wanted an ally against communism in Africa as well as trade relations,   Even when de US and London stopped supporting dem with arms etc, de French step in and fill de breach.

steups, so all de time people, sorry , black people seeing this happening and asking where is de justice, so in some ways, castro's involvement in Angola made him a hero to many in Africa and in black nations!


When s Africa invaded Angola, is 40-50,000 cuban troops who help beat dem back.  Remember as late as 1988, Barclays was doing BIG business in S Africa.

The Soviets were supplying arms and money to black feedom fighters in S. Africa and dem was looking for political points against de USA

That is ah brief history, sorry f ah ramble a bit.....but I wanted to illustrate another angle tuh de Angola ting Jay.

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #110 on: February 24, 2008, 09:36:13 PM »
TT I hearing yuh boss, but even when placing both Castros and Bushes motives within the same moral context, i.e.  self-serving socio-economic expansionism, its clear that Fidel Castro at least held that the entire body of mankind would eventually reap the benefits of his revolutions. And that is giving Bush the benefit of the doubt.

Bush et al not even acting out some misguided ideology....them fellas providing services to the highest bidder for years now dating back to at least the early 1900s.

When did ever Fidel cosy up to Nixon, Pinochet or Thatcher? Yet Nixon was the one who paved the way for the opening of the Chinese labour market. Why to "free" the Chinese? Steups, that policy was engineered so pan-national companies could have access to cheap labour.

Bush and family has long consorted  with the house of Saud as I am suire you know....the same people who in no small part helped finance 911. You think fidel Castro would have done that? Bush and his ilk are offensive to me not just on an agenda level but on personal level as well.



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Offline WestCoast

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #111 on: February 24, 2008, 09:41:23 PM »
In your opinion, is Bush a "brutal murderous dictator"?
Bush has murdered plenty, but he is no dictator. That is a fact. Of course if he suddenly somehow managed to abolish the US constitution and get the armed forces to support him in setting up a police state with no elections, no opposition, in other words oversee the US in the same manner as Castro, and like Castro when he is too old to govern, hand over power to his brother Jeb,then i will change my opinion and acknowledge Bush to be a dictator
you see i have no problem acknowledging Bush to being a bastard who is guilty of murder and torture etc.
it's a just a shame that many refuse to acknowledge the same about Castro
And I have no problem saying that although Castro managed to wrest power from an American-backed puppet (who twice circumvented the Cuban constitution to oust  a democratically elected president) by using the almost universal  support of the people and armed forces of Cuba, and steering Cuba away from the machinations of successive American regimes which cynically attempted to orchestrate control of that soverign nation through numerous assasination attempts and making a mockery of democracy by calling for elections as a a rigged tool for  legitimizing the puppet of their choice, I still had no problem reffering to  to him as a despot.

Castro had no business sending thousands of troops to Angola to help "end the apartheid regime in South Africa"
that is just as criminal as Bush sending thousands of troops to Iraq to help end the Saddam regime
the double standards being employed by some here is appalling imo
do you fellas even acknowledge that Castro is a murdering dictator?
Your position is consistent on both Castro and Bush, yes they have both been responsible for appalling acts.
However while Castro used the classic tools of repression, Bush et al employs the tools of subversion, relying on the complacency of the American people to proclaim freedom and democracy on one side of his mouth while quietly pushing one clandestine anti-freedom agenda after the next. I dislike Bush et asl not neccessarily because of the itinerary but the use of spin and doublespeak to subvert democracy.

TT I hearing yuh boss, but even when placing both Castros and Bushes motives within the same moral context, i.e.  self-serving socio-economic expansionism, its clear that Fidel Castro at least held that the entire body of mankind would eventually reap the benefits of his revolutions. And that is giving Bush the benefit of the doubt.

Bush et al not even acting out some misguided ideology....them fellas providing services to the highest bidder for years now dating back to at least the early 1900s.

When did ever Fidel cosy up to Nixon, Pinochet or Thatcher? Yet Nixon was the one who paved the way for the opening of the Chinese labour market. Why to "free" the Chinese? Steups, that policy was engineered so pan-national companies could have access to cheap labour.

Bush and family has long consorted  with the house of Saud as I am sure you know....the same people who in no small part helped finance 911. You think Fidel Castro would have done that? Bush and his ilk are offensive to me not just on an agenda level but on personal level as well.
Zandolie, man, thanks for your view points eh.......

and to clarify, yes the system in Cuba is not one that I would prefer to live in, but as an outsider, I am still cognisant of the accomplishments of the Cuban people under such a restrictive day to day life.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 10:09:20 PM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #112 on: February 24, 2008, 10:30:54 PM »
West I genuinely respect the US. They have a great spirit and have contributed A GREAT DEAL to the world in terms of music, art, literature, technology, science and industry. And one thing too...despite themselves yuh never see a monkey chant at an NFL football, basketball or baseball game eh.

But the US has taken on an under seige mentality, instead of a reflective mentality. This fear has enabled demagogues like O'Reilley, Rush, what-she-name, and dem so to peddle despair in place of dreams.

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truetrini

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #113 on: February 24, 2008, 11:12:24 PM »
For those who eh know...and wnat tuh know..let me add some MORE PERSPECTIVE nah!  ok?

The US is gripped by fear..fear designed and engineered by a certain group!

Look everyday we innundated with code dis and code dat!

Anthrax letters, bird flu, asian flu, terror, weapons ah mass dedstruction and God coming again..anything to instil fear..why?

So we could look to someone tuh protect we...protect we at any cost....including freedoms and civil liberties!

Castro is ah c**t...Bush is ah cunnie.

Castro is probably de WUSS leader de Caribbean ever had, and Bush de wuss leader de US ever had!

Yuh say when castro ever cosy up tuh Pinochet, Nixon or thatcher?

fella lest yuh eh remember, leh meh remind yuh castro cozy up to peeps jes as bad or even worse.

1.  Hugo Chavez
2.  De Communist party in China (quid pro quo ally)
3.  Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev
4.  The MPLA in Angola  (more commie frens and brutal peeps)
5.   Leonid Brezhnev
6.  Yuri Andropov
7.   Konstantin Chernenko
8.  Mikhail Gorbachev
9.  Evo Morales  Prez of Bolivia ah coc farmer and commie too and although he has done some good for his people he does hang with some unsavoury types

10.  I go add more when I have time

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #114 on: February 24, 2008, 11:44:00 PM »
Castro cosied up to these people b/c for the most part because they were compatriots, and advanced his own agenda. Fidel never dine on no Foie Gras and Duck Confit with his enemies. Say what you will, he had personal integrity and rarely ever compromised his position ideals.

Bush sucking anybody d*ck for a shilling normal normal.  And swallowing too. He go gargle if the price right.

Like the old people say...he eh have no cha-rak-tah





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truetrini

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #115 on: February 24, 2008, 11:48:30 PM »
It takes a lot of integrity to keep your people shackled and in despair that they look to flee via ramshackle rafts to the US?

You promoting a kinda honour among tief theory dey about castro borse.  When castro send dem 50,000 troops to Angola he eh swallow...hell he gargle and get bukkake too!

doh try dat1  Now he was jes kissing chinee ass.

yUh right about Bush..but castro have cha-rak-tak like ah old socks!

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #116 on: February 25, 2008, 12:01:51 AM »
Well among thieves honour does matter....and some thieves have honour, some don't.

I saying simply this; distinctions matter. Castro was a dictator and despot and  I glad I was not  a man born under his rule nor will I defend his continuation into power long after he should have done a mandela. But for me, if I had a choice of who had to burn in a hotter hell, George would be crying the loudest
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truetrini

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #117 on: February 25, 2008, 12:04:57 AM »
Well among thieves honour does matter....and some thieves have honour, some don't.

I saying simply this; distinctions matter. Castro was a dictator and despot and  I glad I was not  a man born under his rule nor will I defend his continuation into power long after he should have done a mandela. But for me, if I had a choice of who had to burn in a hotter hell, George would be crying the loudest
see there are always degrees eh.  Bush have more power world wide so he impact more, had Castro de power to influence OUR world we woulda be crying fuh satan tuh toast him cozy!

Ent?

See what ah talking about...de degrees...is not like castro wouldn't ah impose he will on we if he had the power to do so...dem so-called idealogues doh mess around, if de US didnt keep him in check.......but ah making big suppositions ent/

lol

hahahahahahaha  Boy Bush have honour too, ent he stick with he frens and dem......take de blinders off yuh eyes..or is early morning yampee?  :)

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #118 on: February 25, 2008, 12:14:27 AM »
True Castro would have sent communism all around the world if he had the geopolitical space, but he did not. So I judge him on what he did do. He come up  wanting, with some small successes. But he was still a major figure of the 20th century.

Bush has no friends he have potential investing partners. 

He sneaky, I eh like sneaky people
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 12:21:36 AM by ZANDOLIE »
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truetrini

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Re: Fidel Castro announces retirement!!!
« Reply #119 on: February 25, 2008, 12:20:28 AM »
True Castro would have sent communism all around the world if he had the geopolitical space, but he did not. So I judge him on what he did do. He come up  wanting, with some small successes.

Bush has no friends he have potential investing partners. 

He sneaky, I eh like sneaky people

Yuh backing down smart, smart dey borse:)

I hear yuh, he dislike Bush bad.  Me I care not for he noe=r Castro.

it reminds me ah de time Saddam Hussein wanted to challenge Bush to ah debate...yuh remember dat?

now dat woulda be interesting, as neither ah dem spoke any english  lol

 

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