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Offline Socafan

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #120 on: March 25, 2012, 05:27:41 PM »
Socafan you see that goal?  You telling me T&T ain't have players to pull a man and strike?   Nah!!!!

Exactly...simple shit...how come men not doing what they HAVE TO BE capable of doing?
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Offline Preacher

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #121 on: March 25, 2012, 05:30:03 PM »
They not mentally loose it seems. 
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Offline saint27

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #122 on: March 25, 2012, 05:37:31 PM »
what yal tlkin? this mexico team is very good in the middle of the park .... you don't jus win a world cup and be nun special ... the fact is this mexico team is made up of players who won the most recent U-17 and players who came 3rd in the most recent U-20 ....very good squad....and missing some key players like d boy who chelsea sign

Offline andre samuel

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #123 on: March 25, 2012, 05:51:07 PM »
what yal tlkin? this mexico team is very good in the middle of the park .... you don't jus win a world cup and be nun special ... the fact is this mexico team is made up of players who won the most recent U-17 and players who came 3rd in the most recent U-20 ....very good squad....and missing some key players like d boy who chelsea sign

EXACTLY!!!
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Offline che

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #124 on: March 25, 2012, 05:51:43 PM »
Que Golasso, asso asso asso  :rotfl:

Dread, whey we geh Marchan from?  Call Tenor saw to help now

Is Troy Marquis to old for this team ?

Offline D.H.W

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #125 on: March 25, 2012, 06:03:48 PM »
Que Golasso, asso asso asso  :rotfl:

Dread, whey we geh Marchan from?  Call Tenor saw to help now

Is Troy Marquis to old for this team ?

lol  :rotfl:
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Offline Dinner Mints

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #126 on: March 25, 2012, 06:09:49 PM »
Que Golasso, asso asso asso  :rotfl:

Dread, whey we geh Marchan from?  Call Tenor saw to help now

Is Troy Marquis to old for this team ?
Troy Marquis is old enough for any team he pleases.

Troy Marquis could play on both teams at once.

Offline che

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #127 on: March 25, 2012, 06:19:17 PM »
Mexico leading Honduras 3 nil 47min .If we beat Hon is goal difference or head to head the first tie breaker? If it is goal difference then we need Mex to score a few more.

Offline pioneertrini

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #128 on: March 25, 2012, 06:26:51 PM »
Mexico leading Honduras 3 nil 47min .If we beat Hon is goal difference or head to head the first tie breaker? If it is goal difference then we need Mex to score a few more.


goal difference wont matter, we are on 1 point they are 3 points. so once we win we will be ahead of them. only goal difference could be with panama if they was to beat mex. not sure about the tiebreaker but i think in all fifa competitions they are back to goal difference?

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #129 on: March 25, 2012, 07:40:27 PM »
Socafan you see that goal?  You telling me T&T ain't have players to pull a man and strike?   Nah!!!!

Exactly...simple shit...how come men not doing what they HAVE TO BE capable of doing?

Perhaps the system does not fit their attributes. Perhaps they are being restrained by something (instructions? fear?). But, even in saying so ... I know what allyuh mean ... men still hadda geh on when the opportunity presents itself!!! These players lacked expression on the field.

I lost the feed just as one of the players broke into the 18 for a 1 v 1 with the keeper ... I have no idea what he chose to do but based on the general lack of aggression and composure that characterised our play, I wasn't surprised not to see the ball in the centre when the feed returned.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 08:43:11 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #130 on: March 25, 2012, 08:03:45 PM »
First off, a point in this game is a win.. because the real must win is vs Honduras(If Mexico beat them) so the draw keeps us alive

Now, Angus Eve have to be a total madman.. In the 1st game we set up with PERSONNEL intended to OUTPLAY AND OUTPOSSESS Mexico in California(Basically Mexico).. as a result our midfield was no existent and it was like 5 Mexicans vs our 4 defenders over and over again and of course comical goalkeeping

Now against Panama he adopts the gameplan and possibly the personnel he should have vs Mexico..  so he get 2 games wrong

His selection is baffling... Moses looked very assured and much better than Russell in CB.. Bateau is a shithong but he will give you some spirit and he is captain so he have to start but I rather hm where where he was today.. at RB or CB he very very suspect, thats why Vranes didnt use his ass at all.. Gonsalves was the right pick at RB today so I hope that back 4 remains the same...  against Honduras we should adopt the same formation to start with but tweak the team a bit.. I dont find Williams had the best game in the middle there, he real wild too, recklessly all over the floor.. I want composure out there, not f**king wild men

So having said that the team I think can contain Honduras and give us the best chance of hitting them on the counter or via a set piece or any piece of luck we may need should be:

4-2-3-1

Marchan( my fingers hurt to type that but time to man the f**k up and be a hero kid.. get serious buddy)

Gonsalves
Moses
Cyrus
Jones

Bateau
George

Winchester
Molino
Joseph

Gay

Bench: 2nd keeper, Williams, Russell, De Silva, Jeromie, Jomal, Cato, Lewis, Trevin
 

Those are salient issues. I would love to see someone in the media corps step up to ask specific questions relating to what was the coach's intent. Even if the questions come after the tournament, I think they need to be asked and answered. It would go a long way to understanding Eve's perspective. We deserve more than general platitudes like "de fellas tried their best".

Next thing: on the 4-2-3-1. I have the impression that we entered this tournament with one (read: a limited) playing approach in mind ... come hell or high water. It would be encouraging to see modifications but ah ent too sure that we shall be encouraged.

In both games we have had a problem incorporating numbers into the attack ... both versus a superior Mexico ... and versus a decidedly more generous Panama ... we had problems doing so in a 4-4-2 ... That 4-2-3-1 will not resolve that getting numbers into the attack issue
(I know you didn't raise it for that purpose, ah jes building on your observation) ... In fact, no system of play strictly speaking could guarantee incorporating numbers into the attack merely because yuh playing that system ... planning is one thing, execution is another.

I fully understand yuh rationale. As noble as it is, the lingering issue there is how to effect an effective counter-attack  given our problems going fwd.

Offline dwolfman

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #131 on: March 25, 2012, 08:07:16 PM »
every time we have a tournament we spend ah lumpsum to qualify, and then after the tournament we go back tuh doing the same ole Bulldung, this is not progress, it's quick fixes.


This is probably the most instructive statement into why we continue to struggle at these regional qualifiers. Men does give me real licks for saying that we are not a footballing nation, but it's true. Our youth football is not good, so our secondary schools football is not good. Our youth national teams can't be good and we keep expecting them to somehow produce. Our athletes put in 20 hour plus training weeks in the 3-6 month period leading up to tournament, but where is the prep work before that? Until our athletes develop professional attitudes all year round with administration that encourages their development we will always be chasing the game (on and off the field).

A local coach first told us this and I've since heard foreign ones say the same thing. A professional doesn't start being one with his first pay cheque, he starts that process long before because employers don't want to waste money training a player to have habits that he should have developed years before.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #132 on: March 25, 2012, 08:31:36 PM »
That's true, but we don't have any evidence that these players lacked professionalism in anticipation of this tournament ... at least I don't. I think the question here really resolves around how well or poorly the technical staff integrated this squad ... and how well or poorly the technical staff approached key tactical moments during these matches. It's clear they did some things well. It's also clear that many of our on field deficiencies came from the sidelines.

While I accept the issue you raise is fundamental, based on the performance indicators on Friday and today I don't see our long-term development deficiencies as being the decisive problem in either game.

Frankly, I get the sense that the key problem for us is our inability to manage the dimensions of the football field. Yeah, we couldn't convincingly solve the puzzle of how to move the ball and keep it ...Tellingly, we also couldn't move personnel up, down and across the field. I think that's a symptom of poor field management. The speed of play in both games was different, yet we still had the same problem ... how to conduct the ball and players up and down the field in a consistent way.

I would love to see some thoughtful, balanced attacking/defensive football verus Honduras ... even if ah hadda dream about it.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 08:35:53 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline andre samuel

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #133 on: March 25, 2012, 08:34:57 PM »
Mexico leading Honduras 3 nil 47min .If we beat Hon is goal difference or head to head the first tie breaker? If it is goal difference then we need Mex to score a few more.


IF we beat Honduras, then we would have 4pts and they would have 3pts.

The equation is simple, beat Honduras and we are in the semis
Andre Samuel, who controls all the rights to the phrase "ah love it!!"

Offline Dinner Mints

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #134 on: March 25, 2012, 08:40:10 PM »
Mexico leading Honduras 3 nil 47min .If we beat Hon is goal difference or head to head the first tie breaker? If it is goal difference then we need Mex to score a few more.


IF we beat Honduras, then we would have 4pts and they would have 3pts.

The equation is simple, beat Honduras and we are in the semis
Assuming Panama don't beat Mexico.

Offline elan

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #135 on: March 25, 2012, 08:57:57 PM »
Where Elan?

Didn't have time for this, took my daughter to distress the top U17 girls team in the state today (their ODP team - U14 international, U15 Travel - scrimmaged them). She scored two easy goals, didn't even go into 2nd gear.
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Offline dwolfman

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #136 on: March 25, 2012, 09:01:04 PM »
That's true, but we don't have any evidence that these players lacked professionalism in anticipation of this tournament ... at least I don't. I think the question here really resolves around how well or poorly the technical staff integrated this squad ... and how well or poorly the technical staff approached key tactical moments during these matches. It's clear they did some things well. It's also clear that many of our on field deficiencies came from the sidelines.

While I accept the issue you raise is fundamental, based on the performance indicators on Friday and today I don't see our long-term development deficiencies as being the decisive problem in either game.

Frankly, I get the sense that the key problem for us is our inability to manage the dimensions of the football field. Yeah, we couldn't convincingly solve the puzzle of how to move the ball and keep it ...Tellingly, we also couldn't move personnel up, down and across the field. I think that's a symptom of poor field management. The speed of play in both games was different, yet we still had the same problem ... how to conduct the ball and players up and down the field in a consistent way.

I would love to see some thoughtful, balanced attacking/defensive football verus Honduras ... even if ah hadda dream about it.

I hear you, but you ignored the first point I made about the quality of local football being poor. That takes care of any field management issues you raised. If domestically they don't manage the dimensions of the football field how will they do it internationally? If they've never been exposed to concepts of managing the field how, long run or short run, can we expect better?

Again, professionalism means that they will be preparing themselves for high level football/sport and that goes beyong technical ability (which is all we focus on). Technically they seem to be in a good place, but we didn't struggle as much technically as we did tactically. That is part of the preparation to be a professional athlete and that is not something that changes in a few months prior to a tournament. So that is still (in my humble opinion) vital to the long term development of our game.

Offline elan

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #137 on: March 25, 2012, 09:09:55 PM »
That's true, but we don't have any evidence that these players lacked professionalism in anticipation of this tournament ... at least I don't. I think the question here really resolves around how well or poorly the technical staff integrated this squad ... and how well or poorly the technical staff approached key tactical moments during these matches. It's clear they did some things well. It's also clear that many of our on field deficiencies came from the sidelines.

While I accept the issue you raise is fundamental, based on the performance indicators on Friday and today I don't see our long-term development deficiencies as being the decisive problem in either game.

Frankly, I get the sense that the key problem for us is our inability to manage the dimensions of the football field. Yeah, we couldn't convincingly solve the puzzle of how to move the ball and keep it ...Tellingly, we also couldn't move personnel up, down and across the field. I think that's a symptom of poor field management. The speed of play in both games was different, yet we still had the same problem ... how to conduct the ball and players up and down the field in a consistent way.

I would love to see some thoughtful, balanced attacking/defensive football verus Honduras ... even if ah hadda dream about it.

Would you attribute this inability or lack of addressing this defficiency (field management and transitioning across the field) on the quality of teams - minus Canada and even then some of the key guys were rested - we competed against in the build up phase to the tournament, which may have masked these phases of the game?

Or do you think the technical staff was incapable of recognizing such transitional moments within the smaller moments (big picture now) of the game and how this would have affected future strategies during the tournament?
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Offline just cool

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #138 on: March 25, 2012, 11:30:41 PM »
Bottom line, cookie monster is way over his head and it showed his lack of coaching experience when he got his arse handed to him on friday, and he almost had it handed to him again on sunday, lucky winchester was there to salvage something from this tournament or else he woulda went home wid no cookies in his baggy.
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #139 on: March 26, 2012, 06:12:14 AM »
That's true, but we don't have any evidence that these players lacked professionalism in anticipation of this tournament ... at least I don't. I think the question here really resolves around how well or poorly the technical staff integrated this squad ... and how well or poorly the technical staff approached key tactical moments during these matches. It's clear they did some things well. It's also clear that many of our on field deficiencies came from the sidelines.

While I accept the issue you raise is fundamental, based on the performance indicators on Friday and today I don't see our long-term development deficiencies as being the decisive problem in either game.

Frankly, I get the sense that the key problem for us is our inability to manage the dimensions of the football field. Yeah, we couldn't convincingly solve the puzzle of how to move the ball and keep it ...Tellingly, we also couldn't move personnel up, down and across the field. I think that's a symptom of poor field management. The speed of play in both games was different, yet we still had the same problem ... how to conduct the ball and players up and down the field in a consistent way.

I would love to see some thoughtful, balanced attacking/defensive football verus Honduras ... even if ah hadda dream about it.

Would you attribute this inability or lack of addressing this defficiency (field management and transitioning across the field) on the quality of teams - minus Canada and even then some of the key guys were rested - we competed against in the build up phase to the tournament, which may have masked these phases of the game?

Or do you think the technical staff was incapable of recognizing such transitional moments within the smaller moments (big picture now) of the game and how this would have affected future strategies during the tournament?

I agree with the sentiment Kicker expressed on another thread: I don't think our players are dumb. Similarly, I don't think that Angus Eve or Anton Corneal are idiots. Both have been around the game long enough to be observant of match situations. It would be unfair to the technical staff to speculate without knowing more or without having observed what was emphasized during the road to Cali. I don't think a lack of recognition re: transition is what hampered Eve. However, sometimes coaches overcompensate tactically out of caution rooted in a team's perceived liabilities.

While transition issues could definitely be masked while playing slower opponents or even during internal team practices, I think here there was likely a recognition prior to competition that we would have problems transitioning. Hence, the tactical deployment we saw applied.

Our lines were static. The back four was rigid. The flank defenders rarely got forward. Where this happens, the midfield tends not to have an attacking outlet aside from the 2 players playing in advanced positions ... so most of the dynamic play must emanate from the middle. Essentially, everything falls on the midfield and the central mids in particular, as a result. Where either or both get(s) "sucked in" - attacking or defensive wise - space is conceded for the opponent to play into.

We witnessed large areas of vacant space 20 yards north and south of the center circle during the first game. Static lines playing against a dynamic opponent that transitioned at will. This also likely explains the absence of improvisation by attacking players (unwillingness to take on their markers, unwillingness to dribble, concern of what would happen defensively if they lost the ball, unwillingness of support players to get too far forward etc.)     

Field size is an inherent aspect of field management. A horrible transition team can look great on a small field ... say, Barbados playing @ home in WC qualifying versus playing that atrocious game they played away v the US ... an extreme example? yes but the point is where the solution boils down to stringing effective passes together rather than movement/running ... you're  faced with 2 prospects: (1) the need for more passes to get into a dangerous position or (2) the need for passes of longer range to get dangerous ... consequences: predictable play, interruption of passes and the long ball outlet solution that is over-relied on as a solution.

I suspect we overcompensated defensively and paid the price by having the scoreline magnified when the opponent realized we were uni-dimensional in our play.

+++

Question: how many offside calls did we get in our favour?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 06:18:41 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline madness

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #140 on: March 26, 2012, 06:41:40 AM »
Firstly, the team need to have more confident in themselves to win games. Moving the ball the field is very important. so i hope they can upset Honduras.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #141 on: March 26, 2012, 06:56:01 AM »
That's true, but we don't have any evidence that these players lacked professionalism in anticipation of this tournament ... at least I don't. I think the question here really resolves around how well or poorly the technical staff integrated this squad ... and how well or poorly the technical staff approached key tactical moments during these matches. It's clear they did some things well. It's also clear that many of our on field deficiencies came from the sidelines.

While I accept the issue you raise is fundamental, based on the performance indicators on Friday and today I don't see our long-term development deficiencies as being the decisive problem in either game.

Frankly, I get the sense that the key problem for us is our inability to manage the dimensions of the football field. Yeah, we couldn't convincingly solve the puzzle of how to move the ball and keep it ...Tellingly, we also couldn't move personnel up, down and across the field. I think that's a symptom of poor field management. The speed of play in both games was different, yet we still had the same problem ... how to conduct the ball and players up and down the field in a consistent way.

I would love to see some thoughtful, balanced attacking/defensive football verus Honduras ... even if ah hadda dream about it.

I hear you, but you ignored the first point I made about the quality of local football being poor. That takes care of any field management issues you raised. If domestically they don't manage the dimensions of the football field how will they do it internationally? If they've never been exposed to concepts of managing the field how, long run or short run, can we expect better?

Again, professionalism means that they will be preparing themselves for high level football/sport and that goes beyong technical ability (which is all we focus on). Technically they seem to be in a good place, but we didn't struggle as much technically as we did tactically. That is part of the preparation to be a professional athlete and that is not something that changes in a few months prior to a tournament. So that is still (in my humble opinion) vital to the long term development of our game.

Agreed.

Offline injunchile

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #142 on: March 26, 2012, 10:19:16 AM »
Wonderful analysis and it makes good reading. You know why I like  small Touissant and Cornell Glen.?
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Offline Trini _2026

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #143 on: March 26, 2012, 05:26:52 PM »
what yal tlkin? this mexico team is very good in the middle of the park .... you don't jus win a world cup and be nun special ... the fact is this mexico team is made up of players who won the most recent U-17 and players who came 3rd in the most recent U-20 ....very good squad....and missing some key players like d boy who chelsea sign
what yal tlkin? this mexico team is very good in the middle of the park .... you don't jus win a world cup and be nun special ... the fact is this mexico team is made up of players who won the most recent U-17 and players who came 3rd in the most recent U-20 ....very good squad....and missing some key players like d boy who chelsea sign

EXACTLY!!!

saint yuh wrong there are no players from the Mexican  side that won the recent under 17 world cup however  there are 6 players from the under 20 world cup team that came 3rd... again the Mexican players who were born between 1989 -1990 progressed and new players came on the scene  ...eg  Marco Jhonfai Fabian who scored the hat trick  on us  never represented Mexico at under 17 or under 20 level ... only at under 23 and senior ... those Mexican players play first team football
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #144 on: March 26, 2012, 06:01:45 PM »
Some of you guys really baffle me. Mex. is in our zone and we seem to know everything about them and yet knows nothing about them.  I know for a fact the Mex. national team can give Spain a run for their money and probably beat them in Spain. That is how confident I feel about Mex. football in this genration. Mex. clubs are the best in Concacaf by far. They play in Concaf clubs and win it most of the time. They Conmebol and play very good. They 1st X1, 2ndX1, 3rdX1..... the 10thX1 could probably beat us.

Allyuh fixated on Euro. ball. Watch some Mex. football for a change , nah! We just might learn something. Maybe TTFF should hire a Mexican coach.

Offline dumpalewie

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #145 on: March 26, 2012, 08:09:33 PM »
Where did we find this keeper?
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Offline Tallman

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #146 on: March 26, 2012, 08:19:14 PM »
Where did we find this keeper?

He played in de SSFL with Carapichaima and he was in the squad that went to the 2009 U-20 World Cup in Egypt.
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Offline dumpalewie

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Re: Thread for the T&T U-23 vs Panama U-23 Game (03-25-2012).
« Reply #147 on: March 26, 2012, 08:30:48 PM »
Where did we find this keeper?

He played in de SSFL with Carapichaima and he was in the squad that went to the 2009 U-20 World Cup in Egypt.
I saw the highlights of both games. This guy is way to excitable and error prone.
TnT Patriot

 

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