Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)

[Tiresais]

The defence has been weak for years, sorry but that's the reality. We've always had more up-top, perhaps because of how the SSFL slots into our Youth development and mentality.

I won't for the life of me understand picking Mitchell so much. When Yohance Marshall was at his level a couple years ago, and Mitchell was picked despite being unfit, still couldn't understand it. You know I'm biased for Marshall, but he could play ball AND tackle, and never got a consistent try out in favour of Abu Bakr (who imo wasn't agile or quick enough). Bateau has been the only defender to do a job in the past 5 years for me.

Cyrus has always been good technically and had a lot of potential, but the mentality and intelligence are poor for his quality level and this has been a weakness for nearly a decade. Part of this is never playing at the right level - he's stagnated in T&T and never had to develop his game to face opposition. He is truly one person failed by our shitty FIFA ranking, preventing a move to a better country (or more specifically a League One/Two team). O

ur left/right backs have always played as converted wingers, with not enough defensive positioning or tackling to make up for it - Williams has been the only exception, but he's worse as he plays like a converted Centre Back - works well sometimes, but found out too often.

Our players overall have stagnated in the past 5 years and on top of DJW's overwhelming incompetence this has compounded our misery. So many of our players have seen their potential dashed - Woo Ling in Malta? Molino stuck in the US? Joevin Jones stuck in T&T so long? Cyrus only just escaping to Saudi, where training is part time and in the evening (from what I hear from other players in the middle-east)? Guerra nearly 30 before getting a 2nd shot outside? Shannon Gomez stuck in lower leagues in US? Same for Aikim, but Canada? Kadeem Corbin has had 4 clubs in T&T by 23? Jabari Mitchell had a month in Albania?

And what will happen next, where are the Isaiah's heading? JP Rochford is still in the Super League?

Our football is in crisis, not because of the crap results, but because our future. Our youth has no outs, no way to get quality opposition consistently to develop their fitness, intelligence and mentality. Our lack of a proper football league over the past year has made this significantly worse.

[asylumseeker]

The GK position is a unique role. We all pretty much understand that. But there's one point I want to flesh out a bit.

When a defender or a mid or a fwd hasn't been playing much with his club, typically we accept that, in the scheme of things, competition for inclusion in a squad renders a player with fewer minutes a likely casualty of a coach's axe.

Although ideally in the case of GKs, you would want three GKs who see week-in week-out action at club level, the critical element about the nature of GK psychological preparation is that they are ready to go on the drop of a dime ... upon any change in fortune. Our most emblematic example of this was what happened to Shaka in Germany.
Similarly there are NT keepers who have not been number 1 at their clubs, but are #1 on their NT.

Although GR's role with Orlando has been a secondary one this year, that by itself ought not be enough to remove him from the conversation and contention.

I would note too that playing time with T&T would have transformed GR's marketability at the end of the club season. Now I think he's faced with a delicate balance at club level. It may be along the line of an international roster spot and a similar calculus to what JMW is faced with at Halifax (based on an article I read).

If Foncette is the #2 and he's not in Ecuador, what does it say about Samuel when you bring NF and insert him in the lineup and grant him the start. I'm not sure we've ever had our best three keepers together for a match.

Frankly, I think in the context of responsiveness to a Technical Committee there needs to be a specific component body that comprehensively revamps everything that happens with GKs, their development, selection policy etc. to reduce subjectivity in evaluations and to keep coaches accountable.

Of course, private conversations have occurred but this is an area of concern that is worrisome.

[asylumseeker]

So we have another goal keeper who wants to get in on the defensive duty? if this guy wasn’t so eager to leave his line then the two goals from open play could have been averted. why do our keepers love to rush off their line at the slightest sense of danger, why not trust and allow the defenders to handle the attackers and stop trying to play last stopper.

as for cyrus, please guy your are not international material, why not go learn a trade and leave international football alone. please.

I disagree. He resolved the two clear situations of danger that could have resulted in a goal (the lobbed ball and the distribution error that was a technical error as well).

The 3 goals were from unforced errors that didn't have much to do with the GK. If anything, NF was playing with perhaps too much confidence in the quality of the defenders around him.

Cyrus ... everything about that 1st goal points to Cyrus ... from the time the entry pass came in.

NF can't be blamed for the penalty.

The 3rd goal is woeful from the defender's misplaced pass etc. ... Mitchell. Nothing about that run of the mill situation of NF making that pass should have led to a goal.

I think NF showed his quality. He brings something to the table.

[pull stones]

The defence has been weak for years, sorry but that's the reality. We've always had more up-top, perhaps because of how the SSFL slots into our Youth development and mentality.

I won't for the life of me understand picking Mitchell so much. When Yohance Marshall was at his level a couple years ago, and Mitchell was picked despite being unfit, still couldn't understand it. You know I'm biased for Marshall, but he could play ball AND tackle, and never got a consistent try out in favour of Abu Bakr (who imo wasn't agile or quick enough). Bateau has been the only defender to do a job in the past 5 years for me.

Cyrus has always been good technically and had a lot of potential, but the mentality and intelligence are poor for his quality level and this has been a weakness for nearly a decade. Part of this is never playing at the right level - he's stagnated in T&T and never had to develop his game to face opposition. He is truly one person failed by our shitty FIFA ranking, preventing a move to a better country (or more specifically a League One/Two team). O

ur left/right backs have always played as converted wingers, with not enough defensive positioning or tackling to make up for it - Williams has been the only exception, but he's worse as he plays like a converted Centre Back - works well sometimes, but found out too often.

Our players overall have stagnated in the past 5 years and on top of DJW's overwhelming incompetence this has compounded our misery. So many of our players have seen their potential dashed - Woo Ling in Malta? Molino stuck in the US? Joevin Jones stuck in T&T so long? Cyrus only just escaping to Saudi, where training is part time and in the evening (from what I hear from other players in the middle-east)? Guerra nearly 30 before getting a 2nd shot outside? Shannon Gomez stuck in lower leagues in US? Same for Aikim, but Canada? Kadeem Corbin has had 4 clubs in T&T by 23? Jabari Mitchell had a month in Albania?

And what will happen next, where are the Isaiah's heading? JP Rochford is still in the Super League?

Our football is in crisis, not because of the crap results, but because our future. Our youth has no outs, no way to get quality opposition consistently to develop their fitness, intelligence and mentality. Our lack of a proper football league over the past year has made this significantly worse.

listen up mate, the poor results we are seeing now is not as a result of the UK shutting their doors in our faces because apart from england the doors are open every where else and these lads have been going and coming like the four seasons with no one sticking in one place for more than two years or so, and that’s every last one of them, so who do we blame?

there is an old biblical saying “you reap what you sow”. for years we had an old man sitting in the seat of power allowing his wealthy influential old man friend to run football and increase his wealth at the expense of football in this country. these old fellows did absolutely nothing for football not even a make shift school to teach the basics to improve the level of play on these twin sister isles, and while other countries like panama  honduras  jamaica  and a few small islands were implementing developmental programs, we were busy counting how many shell cups we’ve won while turning our noses down on other islands like we were as wealthy with talent like brazil.

fast forward two decades later and we are now seeing the fruits of our labor, professional ball players who can’t make a proper 20 yard pass without giving away the ball, players who can’t properly shield a ball from attackers, players who can’t travel comfortably with a ball at their feet save a few ( molino , jovin , hyland), it’s quite obvious that we didn’t produce a good crop, and now these islands have caught up to us and are exposing us for the frauds that we are.

it’s safe to say that our defenders are the absolute worst in league A and B, and all the goals scored in our last   7 games with martinique  honduras  mexico  venezuela and ecuador have all been due to poor silly elementary text book defensive errors, something a foreign coach would send players packing for. ever wondered why none of our guys ever stays anywhere for more than a season and never makes a step up, instead they are relegated to poorer leagues? cato, gomez, kavan george, mikel williams, aubrey david, hyland, cyrus, mitchell, this is no coincidence.

right now our focus should be on developmental programs, let’s forget making a world cup for now and concentrate on winning a gold cup, let’s break down this old house and build an academy, then two more academies, then three more, one in each region with foreign coaches from germany  itally  spain  argentina teaching these children the basic fundamentals of football, something that so many of our home grown professional players lack.

that’s where we need to start, that’s where our focus should remain, it’s our only hope if we are ever to be a proper footballing nation, and money hafi spend and plenty of it too. let’s forget about cyrus and bateau they are the fruits of our labor.....or lack thereof. we need to start over in a big way, a better league and much more developmental programs and plenty money have to spend spend spend.

[lefty]

We are at the  stage now where I feel is time to scratch and start over with u20 and u23 as a nucleus with about d ..with 5-6 of d still useful seniors and bring in Angus Eve or a foreign coach dat have experience with mostly young teams....watch the England game yesterday d average age of dat team is 26 and dem going guns ....Ajax and chelsea average age is 23 doing well....honestly feel dat something brave like dat is needed alongside general targets for improving football at all national levels(slowness and poor basics is an issue at all levels even SSFL) and write off this current period to an extent....I  honestly think d TTFA disaster we are forced to endure leaves us with little choice at this stage.

[asylumseeker]

WATCH: Trinidad and Tobago MNT Head Coach provides post-match comments regarding Trinidad and Tobago's 3-0 loss to Ecuador on November 14, 2019. He mentions the absence of Molino and Jones, unanticipated injuries and medically ruled out players.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/8a9G3Jf8NUc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/8a9G3Jf8NUc</a>

[pull stones]

So we have another goal keeper who wants to get in on the defensive duty? if this guy wasn’t so eager to leave his line then the two goals from open play could have been averted. why do our keepers love to rush off their line at the slightest sense of danger, why not trust and allow the defenders to handle the attackers and stop trying to play last stopper.

as for cyrus, please guy your are not international material, why not go learn a trade and leave international football alone. please.

I disagree. He resolved the two clear situations of danger that could have resulted in a goal (the lobbed ball and the distribution error that was a technical error as well).

The 3 goals were from unforced errors that didn't have much to do with the GK. If anything, NF was playing with perhaps too much confidence in the quality of the defenders around him.

Cyrus ... everything about that 1st goal points to Cyrus ... from the time the entry pass came in.

NF can't be blamed for the penalty.

The 3rd goal is woeful from the defender's misplaced pass etc. ... Mitchell. Nothing about that run of the mill situation of NF making that pass should have led to a goal.

I think NF showed his quality. He brings something to the table.

never said it was his fault, but those goals were quite savable if he didn’t panic leaving his line on the first goal not getting the ball with an empty net for a tap in, and on the last goal his positioning was awful standing all the way on top the six yard box when he should have been on his line allowing valencia to pass the ball effortlessly in the goal, a very savable goal had the keeper been on his line.

there’s a reason why teams spend big money on certain players, it’s because they are assets to any team. you should pay close attention to navas and zack stefan, those guys understand ball speed and distance to a science, they seldom leave their lines, and when they do 95% of the time they either come up with the ball or disrupts the play.

they allow their defenders to avert the danger before stepping in and act as the last line of defense. you will never see navas more than one foot from his line when there’s attacker in his area, he watches eagerly and is on his toes waiting for the strike but stays close to his goal line. our keepers need to watch and learn from the best, but they seldom seem to learn, it’s very hard to watch.

[dnice1]

So you have to look at it this way..
 
TTFA does not have the infrastructure in place to develop domestic players (pyramid for development), so players have to look at outside options..
-NCAA- Not a development option, but a showcase option- gets you to USL/MLS
-The Federation have to bleed in more players , the current administration/coaches, does not take chances in the “friendly” games to introduce new players to the set up.
-Have camps (serious ones and not money making schemes) outside of Trinidad to identify new talent
-Proper scouting and not depending on Wyscout to do your work.
- I honestly think forum members like Trini 2018/Flex/Tallman can be very effective scouts, they have been doing it for many years (check the posts) and continue to be ignored..(sad)
-It is a bit of chicken  and egg , as agents/established clubs will look at players who have international experience and then our current “selectors” will only look at players who are at a decent club.
 
When we solve some of these issue, we will start to see a change…right know it is like a re-watching a bad dream every game, with the same folks making the same mistakes, and the same spin in the post game interview-

[Tallman]

Trinidad and Tobago fall 3-0 to Ecuador
TTFA Media

Trinidad and Tobago Men’s Senior team were downed 3-0 by Ecuador in Thursday’s international friendly at the Estadio Reales Tamarindos in Portoviejo.

Goals on either side of the half gave the hosts the win in front of their home fans as T&T head coach Dennis Lawrence used the exercise to fine tune his troops for Sunday’s all important CONCACAF Nations League and Gold Cup qualifier against Honduras in San Pedro Sula.

As it stands, following Martinique’s 1-1 draw with Honduras in Fort-de-France on Thursday, T&T must now carve out a victory to finish in second place in the group and in the process seal a place in the 2021 CONCACAF Gold Cup.

Already facing the setbacks of missing injured players for the Ecuador encounter, T&T traveled to San Pedro Sula on Friday morning with a depleted squad as up to eight players will miss the encounter with a further two doubtful. With Levi Garcia, Mekeil Williams, Leston Paul and Alvin Jones out through suspension, T&T also lost forward Rundell Winchester with a calf injury, Neveal Hackshaw with a torn meniscus and skipper Khaleen Hyland and Aikim Andrews are both doubtful with hamstring injuries while US-based duo Kevin Molino and Joevin Jones chose to make themselves unavailable for both matches after being called up, according to Lawrence.

“That’s football. Football is when you got all these moments and then you got to dig deep and use all your resources. That’s why tonight we tried as best as possible to use the players wisely because I didn’t want to take the risk in some of them getting on the pitch,” Lawrence told TTFA Media after the match.

“Very, very disappointed with the Khaleem one because he was only meant to play 45 minutes and we didn’t even get to 45 minutes. Ataulla had to play longer than I wanted him to play So it’s a bit of a concern…Rundell Winchester coming here and then having the abscess. From an injury front it’s a difficult one but what we just need to do now is roll our sleeves. We need to find a way. Now we need to dig deep. We need to come together and face what is front of us. We have to go out there and give it our best,” Lawrence stressed.

On the field, T&T conceded goals cheaply with 21-year-old debutant Alan Franco slotting past goalkeeper Nicklas Frenderup for the opener in the 29th minute. The Danish-born goalkeeper had a solid showing between the sticks and deserved credit for a couple of impressive stops. Michael Estrada tried to lob him in the 26th but he was up to the task, stretching full length to prevent the ball from entering the net. Ten minutes later he used his legs well to deny Estrada. Seven minutes before Ecuador broke the deadlock, T&T lost Hyland who pulled up with a hamstring strain and was replaced by Ataulla Guerra. Along with Frenderup’s showing, there were promising displays from midfielder Aaron Lester while Alvin Jones and Williams kept things organised at the back alongside Carlyle Mitchell and Daneil Cyrus. Matthew Woo Ling also came off the bench and looked capable in the middle of the park.

Mekeil Williams had an effort for T&T in the second half but Ecuador would keep a clean sheet and added a penalty goal in the 69th from Enner Valencia and he would add his second in the 84th.

“I thought we came up against a very good team. They moved the ball well, technically they are a very, very good team, I was pleased with the way we managed the game technically. I wasn’t pleased with the way we conceded the three goals. I thought they were three very cheap goals, in particular the third one so we need to improve on that.

“It was difficult for our boys. we struggled badly physically tonight, But all in all I think we got something out of the game which was a workout for some of the boys that needed to get some minutes under their belt. And now we just try to recover to get over into Honduras,” Lawrence said.

The squad left for Guayaquil by bus on Thursday night from the match venue to catch a connecting flight to El Salvador en route to Honduras ahead of Sunday’s encounter.

Trinidad and Tobago: 22. Nicklas Frenderup (GK); 5. Daneil Cyrus (vice-captain), 4. Sheldon Bateau 46′), 16. Alvin Jones, 17. Mekeil Williams; 8. Khaleem Hyland (captain) (9. Ataulla Guerra 22), 23. Aaron Lester, 12. Carlyle Mitchell, 7. Nathan Lewis (11. Ryan Telfer 62′), 3. Ross Russell Jr; 14. Daniel Carr (9. Jomoul Francois 60′), 15. Andre Fortune (19. Matthew Woo Ling 79′),

Subs not used: 1. Marvin Phillip (GK), 21. Glenroy Samuel (GK), 2. Aubrey David, 6. Keston Julien, 2. Kevon Goddard, 18. Duane Muckette, 18. Aikim Andrews, 20. Jomal Williams, 10. Marcus Joseph, Rundell Winchester.

Head Coach: Dennis Lawrence

Ecuador: 1. Johan Padilla (GK); 23. Bryan Carabali, 2. Félix Torres, 14. Xavier Arreaga (6. Moises Corozo 73), 3. Diego Palacios; 8. Jhegson Mendez, 21. Alan Franco (24. Jordan Sierra 57′); 5. Renato Ibarra (9. Joao Rojas 66′), 1 7. Romario Ibarra (11. Marcos Caicedo 43′); 19. Michael Estrada (13. Enner Valencia 57), 10. Angel Mena (27. Cabeza 75′),

Subs Not used:  12. Jorge Pinos, 17. Andrés Lopez, 4. Gustavo Cortez, 20. Gonzalo Plata, 15. José Cifuentes, 22. Brian Heras, 26. Leonel Quiñonez,

Head Coach: Jorge Célico

RELATED NEWS

Valencia scores twice as Ecuador whip T&T.
By Joel Bailey (Newsday).

TRINIDAD AND Tobago men’s football team were downed 3-0 by Ecuador in Thursday’s international friendly at the Estadio Reales Tamarindos in Portoviejo.

Goals on either side of the half gave the hosts the win in front of their home fans as T&T coach Dennis Lawrence used the exercise to fine tune his troops for tomorrow’s all-important Concacaf Nations League and Gold Cup qualifier against Honduras in San Pedro Sula.

As it stands, following Martinique’s 1-1 draw with Honduras in Fort-de-France on Thursday, T&T must now carve out a victory to finish in second place in the group and in the process seal a place in the 2021 Concacaf Gold Cup.

Already facing the setbacks of missing injured players for the Ecuador encounter, T&T travelled to San Pedro Sula yesterday morning with a depleted squad as up to eight players will miss the encounter with a further two doubtful. With Levi Garcia, Mekeil Williams, Leston Paul and Alvin Jones out through suspension, TT also lost forward Rundell Winchester with a calf injury, Neveal Hackshaw with a torn meniscus and skipper Khaleen Hyland and Aikim Andrews are both doubtful with hamstring injuries while US-based duo Kevin Molino and Joevin Jones chose to make themselves unavailable for both matches after being called up, according to Lawrence.

T&T conceded goals cheaply with 21-year-old debutant Alan Franco slotting past goalkeeper Nicklas Frenderup for the opener in the 29th minute. The Danish-born goalkeeper had a solid showing between the sticks and deserved credit for a couple of impressive stops. Michael Estrada tried to lob him in the 26th but he was up to the task, stretching full length to prevent the ball from entering the net. Ten minutes later he used his legs well to deny Estrada.

Seven minutes before Ecuador broke the deadlock, T&T lost Hyland who pulled up with a hamstring strain and was replaced by Ataulla Guerra. Along with Frenderup’s showing, there were promising displays from midfielder Aaron Lester while Alvin Jones and Williams kept things organised at the back alongside Carlyle Mitchell and Daneil Cyrus. Matthew Woo Ling also came off the bench and looked capable in the middle of the park.

Mekeil Williams had an effort for T&T in the second half but Ecuador would keep a clean sheet and added a penalty goal in the 69th from Enner Valencia and he would add his second in the 84th.

[asylumseeker]

Trinidad and Tobago fall 3-0 to Ecuador
TTFA Media
...

“It was difficult for our boys. we struggled badly physically tonight, But all in all I think we got something out of the game which was a workout for some of the boys that needed to get some minutes under their belt. And now we just try to recover to get over into Honduras,” Lawrence said.

The squad left for Guayaquil by bus on Thursday night from the match venue to catch a connecting flight to El Salvador en route to Honduras ahead of Sunday’s encounter.


...

Playing in Portoviejo is going to be a hike. Might have been easier to get to the Galapagos. 

I hope those 6-7 hours don't prove costly given the compressed calendar! Because the travel time cumulatively will reach into double figures before the players can truly rest before taking to the field on Sunday.

[Tiresais]

No wonder Jones and Molino said no - imagine being a professional footballer with proper coaches and accounting for rest time between matches, only to be asked to play 3 games in 9 days in 3 different countries, with almost a day's worth of travel to weaken your body. I 100% don't blame them - T&T have shown in the past too little concern for the fitness of our NT players and threatening your livelihood under a regime that has explicitly stated they are sacrificing results doesn't seem reasonable.

[pull stones]

No wonder Jones and Molino said no - imagine being a professional footballer with proper coaches and accounting for rest time between matches, only to be asked to play 3 games in 9 days in 3 different countries, with almost a day's worth of travel to weaken your body. I 100% don't blame them - T&T have shown in the past too little concern for the fitness of our NT players and threatening your livelihood under a regime that has explicitly stated they are sacrificing results doesn't seem reasonable.

if jones and molino are not injured then that’s bull crap on their part. last night roman torres and Jordan morris played 90 minutes for their country because they understand what was at stake, a gold cup spot and a chance at the hex.

if these players think they’re doing anything to dennis lawrence or DJW then they’re sadly mistaking. lawrence and DJW will go back to what they were doing before the national team, the one would go back to running his football club and the other back to europe probably helping martinez with the Belgian national team, but molino Jones and all the other players will be dormant and locked out of all regional competitive games for the next three years. if they know what’s best for them they better win that game tomorrow.

[FF]

We ent winning that game no matter what. We win one game with a asterix for the year. Them fellas read the writing on the wall and say f**k that. The nightmare almost over. Why risk yuh livelihood. I with them.

[asylumseeker]

We ent winning that game no matter what. We win one game with a asterix for the year. Them fellas read the writing on the wall and say f**k that. The nightmare almost over. Why risk yuh livelihood. I with them.

Players can always mutiny by playing the football they know rather than the brand expected.

[Deeks]

So we have another goal keeper who wants to get in on the defensive duty? if this guy wasn’t so eager to leave his line then the two goals from open play could have been averted. why do our keepers love to rush off their line at the slightest sense of danger, why not trust and allow the defenders to handle the attackers and stop trying to play last stopper.

as for cyrus, please guy your are not international material, why not go learn a trade and leave international football alone. please.

pull stones, a lot of your comments shows your total frustrations. Not to say we are not all frustrated You blaming the keeper again. You think Glenroy or Foncette could have done any better ? Again our already shakey defense is always prone to the odd mistake. I am being generous. What are our mid-field and attacking players doing? I saw one shot at their keeper. To be honest, I am so glad our keeper got his first game. It could have been 5-0.

While I am leaning on removing Dennis, I understand the frustration he is going thru having to deal with this bunch of dejected players. These guys are professionals. Even if they playing in a far away countries. They are pros. This group just not ready. If we have another coach, I can't see much change, unless we get about 5 or 6 players out of the blue.

How on earth can DL get these guys to play like 15 yrs ago in 5 day periods when we have international games? He should have had a good rapport with them by now. He has had enough time. He should be communicating with them about they improving on their skills when they are with their clubs. There is very little he could do other than encouragement and tactics when they come home for internationals. How can he teach proper passing,  heading and first touch at this stage in their professional lives? That is for U-19 and below. U-20 and above they should be ready. They eh ready. They just not ready.

[soccerman]

Deeks this team with many of the same players were playing a lot better previously. We've regressed over the past few years. This is DL's first gig as a head coach and it shows.

[Deeks]

Deeks this team with many of the same players were playing a lot better previously. We've regressed over the past few years. This is DL's first gig as a head coach and it shows.

I agree to a point. I still feel the senior men with the experience during Hart tenure should be carrying this team on their back. If they dejected, doh play. Watching these guys going thru the motion is not a nice thing to watch.

[asylumseeker]

asylumseeker, is this Ecuador side anything close to their frist team?

Somewhat, yes in terms of recognized and ready talent (but there arguably are some established players who could still command a place in the squad (for example Felipe Caicedo if he was inclined ) and others who could be progressed from the U23s that are currently prepping for South America's Olympic qualifiers (under the same coach)). Also there are a couple talented young players already in Europe who have been left to grow a bit (for instance the first player Ronaldo acquired at Valladolid, a player named Stiven Plaza).

That stated, this coach sees his role as one of highlighting players who are knocking on the door insistently and others who have been overlooked in recent cycles under recent coaches Quinteros and Gomez. This coach is also tacitly interested in the job, but by taking this approach he is also covering his ass a bit, especially not wanting a repeat of the 6-1 he suffered vs Argentina. There isn't much significant sentiment in his favor though, despite his undeniable success at U20 level (WC bronze medallists).

If Jose Pékerman takes the job, he will have a different elaboration of a 23-man squad, but many of these players would automatically be initial contenders.

Other consideration: 4 players went back to their club squads because their clubs are in a cup final on Saturday and there was constant pressure on the federation and caretaker coach to ignore it being a FIFA date.

Finally, Independiente del Valle (just won the Sudamericana) is stacked with young homegrown talent and only 2 players from that club are in this squad ... So the theme I discussed this morning was that the process of "recambio' in Ecuador contrasts with our retention of older players, although the randomized selection of Woo Ling and Lewis call for acknowledgement of recognizing that DL either sees it or is hitting in the dark.

Last thing, if you look at the GKs for Ecuador ... all are playing locally and they have an average age of 26 ... all are under 30. So in this sense it is good to see Frenderup on the pitch. And the questions raised about what Glenroy Samuel should be doing linger. So position by position although the Ecuador squad is anything but settled, many of the players selected are consensus NT material.

Here's a graphical comparison of Ecuador's pre-Copa America provisional list (40 players) with the squad that faced us on 11/14 (27 players).






Goalkeepers
Johan Padilla (Nacional)
Pedro Ortiz (Delfín)
Brian Heras (Dep. Cuenca)

Defenders
Andrés López (U. Católica)
Bryan Carabalí (Emelec)
Félix Torres (Santos Laguna, MEX)
Xavier Arreaga (Seattle Sounders, USA)
Moisés Corozo (Macará)
Franklin Guerra (Liga de Quito)

Midfielders
Diego Palacios (Los Ángeles FC, USA)
Gustavo Cortez (U. Católica)
Leonel Quiñónez (Macará)
Gonzalo Plata (Sporting Lisbon, POR)
Renato Ibarra (América, MEX)
Pedro Perlaza (Delfín)
Romario Ibarra (Pachuca, MEX)
Marcos Caicedo (BSC)
José Cifuentes (América de Quito)
Jhegson Méndez (Orlando City, USA)
Jefferson Orejuela (Liga de Quito ←Fluminense, BRA)
Alan Franco (IDV)
Ángel Mena (León, MEX)
Jordan Sierra (Querétaro, MEX)

Forwards
Fidel Martínez (BSC)
Michael Estrada (Macará)
Enner Valencia (Tigres, MEX)
Alejandro Cabeza (IDV)

[asylumseeker]

Whatever happened to the post-match press conference of DL with the Ecuadorian media? We saw a video of DL speaking to Fuentes separately, but what did he say in the official post-match comments?

Did they ask him about Jones and Molino? Did they ask him about the tactical orientation of the match? Did he tell them the same things he told us by way of explanation?

[Tiresais]

No wonder Jones and Molino said no - imagine being a professional footballer with proper coaches and accounting for rest time between matches, only to be asked to play 3 games in 9 days in 3 different countries, with almost a day's worth of travel to weaken your body. I 100% don't blame them - T&T have shown in the past too little concern for the fitness of our NT players and threatening your livelihood under a regime that has explicitly stated they are sacrificing results doesn't seem reasonable.

if jones and molino are not injured then that’s bull crap on their part. last night roman torres and Jordan morris played 90 minutes for their country because they understand what was at stake, a gold cup spot and a chance at the hex.

if these players think they’re doing anything to dennis lawrence or DJW then they’re sadly mistaking. lawrence and DJW will go back to what they were doing before the national team, the one would go back to running his football club and the other back to europe probably helping martinez with the Belgian national team, but molino Jones and all the other players will be dormant and locked out of all regional competitive games for the next three years. if they know what’s best for them they better win that game tomorrow.

Lets say Trinidad asks you to haul your ass to do your exact job, but for the country, for a 5 day period, but with less professional management and with people you don't know. It's riskier and involved a whole day's travel, and they're not going to pay you for it (match fees unpaid). When you turn up, despite being one of the better (insert your job here), you're likely to just sit there and watch other people cock up the job you're better at. Worse still, you're competing against another country who are run better, paid better, and have professional management. Oh and if you get injured and need time off work, they slap you on the back, put you on a plane, and say "so long and thanks for all the fish" whilst you take a serious cut to your pay check (none of which is covered) and potentially get let go in a couple months.


There's love of country, but that needs to be reciprocal and needs to be respected. These people often have families they are supporting in a job that ends before 35. Given the disgraceful management by the TTFA, I'm both shocked and awed by any player who will still put a shirt on for us, and certainly don't hold it against those who don't.

[Deeks]

Given the disgraceful management by the TTFA, I'm both shocked and awed by any player who will still put a shirt on for us, and certainly don't hold it against those who don't.

Could not agree with this statement more.

[pull stones]

Given the disgraceful management by the TTFA, I'm both shocked and awed by any player who will still put a shirt on for us, and certainly don't hold it against those who don't.

Could not agree with this statement more.

bull. International football is not a money making venture its a labor of love. no player goes to play for his country expecting a paycheck. taylor twellman said it best when the usa lossed to us and the players were complaining about field conditions he said, Belgium played Bosnia in a cow pasture and grinned out a win, there’s no excuse for not giving your all for your country, it’s about national pride.

When a player gets called up for his country on an international date his club is obligated to take care of the player in the event of an injury, that player is also supposed to be insured by his federation and club in the event of a career ending injury. under fifa rules no federation is obligated to nurse a player back to health or take on personal responsibility of any player, neither can any club barr any player from representing his nation on a fifa sanctioned date.

when you look at jamaica, mexico, costa rica, honduras and the usa their fans come out even if they’re playing a low ranking team. their stands are full to capacity the teli has the game on tap and the players are brimming with pride and you see it when the anthem is played the passion and the commitment is evident.

these people play for their country and their fans are aware of it, maybe that’s why their stands are full and not ours, because us as fans are not aware of any such commitment on the part of these saga boys masquerading as footballers.

[asylumseeker]

Given the disgraceful management by the TTFA, I'm both shocked and awed by any player who will still put a shirt on for us, and certainly don't hold it against those who don't.

Could not agree with this statement more.

bull. International football is not a mo ey making venture its a labor of love.

It is both. And it has to be both in the era of professional football. It is romantic to think of it in any other terms. The 2006 13 would disagree with you.

[asylumseeker]

Lets say Trinidad asks you to haul your ass to do your exact job, but for the country, for a 5 day period, but with less professional management and with people you don't know. It's riskier and involved a whole day's travel, and they're not going to pay you for it (match fees unpaid). When you turn up, despite being one of the better (insert your job here), you're likely to just sit there and watch other people cock up the job you're better at. Worse still, you're competing against another country who are run better, paid better, and have professional management. Oh and if you get injured and need time off work, they slap you on the back, put you on a plane, and say "so long and thanks for all the fish" whilst you take a serious cut to your pay check (none of which is covered) and potentially get let go in a couple months.

There's love of country, but that needs to be reciprocal and needs to be respected. These people often have families they are supporting in a job that ends before 35. Given the disgraceful management by the TTFA, I'm both shocked and awed by any player who will still put a shirt on for us, and certainly don't hold it against those who don't.

There are two constituent groups that need to get their act together in T&T: players and coaches. Both groups are captured and will be unable to effect the most efficient outcomes unless they have a higher degree of organized and sensible solidarity as distinct groups.

If the players only avenue is to treat each percolating matter as a hostage crisis negotiation then they are only treating each individual symptom and not the roots ... but say what, domestic and pro football in T&T is football in name only ... for now. And now has been a long time.

The coaches are opportunists.

The players are the one group that can make a lot of our problems go away, but they need to understand their power.

[pull stones]

Given the disgraceful management by the TTFA, I'm both shocked and awed by any player who will still put a shirt on for us, and certainly don't hold it against those who don't.

Could not agree with this statement more.

bull. International football is not a mo ey making venture its a labor of love.

It is both. And it has to be both in the era of professional football. It is romantic to think of it in any other terms. The 2006 13 would disagree with you.

mate I don’t care what nobody says, I know for a fact that jovin and Kevin’s absence last night was a coup d’etat and no one could convince me otherwise. it was also done to Steven hart and maybe contro had it wrong all along when the sabotage could have been coming from the players themselves and not the president.

jovin wanted us to lose and maybe so did the whole bloody team, did you see anything so bizarre, a whole team full of absentees? what’s bothering me is that they should have known that by the next game dennis should and probably would not have a job, so why risk it?

I’ve been asking myself why after such good performances did we allow teams we normally beat easily to toss us aside like lettuce, grenada st vincent guyana when we were beating panama guatemala and el salvadore. Steven hart was losing his shirt in his last several outings and the players looked disinterested, I think these players either hated hart’s no nonsense cut and dry disciplined approach or they didn’t want to play for DJW and decided to sobotage him, time will tell all. I anxiously await the conclusion.

[Dinner Mints]

Man still talking 'labor of love' in 2019?

You think Aguero leaving Man City breakroom to go Kosovo for free? You think Harry Kane dem ain't negotiating how much money in their pocket? Or the terms of what happens if they get hurt?

'Labor of love' is guilt tactics so you could continue to oppress people and use their bodies without reciprocity.

We reach here because of all that, 'Ease we up, nah. Oh gosh, give a bligh,' ass foolishness we does allow.

Come correct or doh come. Until that mindset is ingrained, we in trouble.

[pull stones]

Man still talking 'labor of love' in 2019?

You think Aguero leaving Man City breakroom to go Kosovo for free? You think Harry Kane dem ain't negotiating how much money in their pocket? Or the terms of what happens if they get hurt?

'Labor of love' is guilt tactics so you could continue to oppress people and use their bodies without reciprocity.

We reach here because of all that, 'Ease we up, nah. Oh gosh, give a bligh,' ass foolishness we does allow.

Come correct or doh come. Until that mindset is ingrained, we in trouble.

harry Kane? I don’t know who you know but I was fortunate to be friends with a class mate who played in the english first division and went on to play in the premiership. before he went on to play professionally we would talk about being called up for the lions, and let me tell you this, every english footballer’s dream is to be an international player. I know players who would give their right arm just to be capped for england including my former class mate.

I understand what you’re saying but Kane and company don’t need that money as much as they want to be capped and doubt if any english player or even irish or Scottish would have left their country in the lurch like Kevin an$ jovin did last night.

yes all the things that you underline are very important I will agree, but Jesus christ man jovin and them knew what they were gettin themselves into when they signed up to play international football and they had the option to abstain like bostock, zamora, innis , j loyd samuel and many more who blanked the federation. the thing is why now when your country really need you, what bloody fans would pay their money to see players who wont play for love of country and would not take one for the team? but that’s just my opinion and I could be very very wrong.

[asylumseeker]

pull stones, no one likes to work when he or she is not happy or not feeling fulfilled. A footballer is no different. In fact if yuh head is not in the game it literally shows.

Also, there's a big difference to dreaming about being capped and having been capped over 70 times ... at that stage the analysis is different.

[pull stones]

pull stones, no one likes to work when he or she is not happy or not feeling fulfilled. A footballer is no different. In fact if yuh head is not in the game it literally shows.

Also, there's a big difference to dreaming about being capped and having been capped over 70 times ... at that stage the analysis is different.

yes I agree, but my point is that they have done this before. do you remember when we went to the gold cup for the first time in 4 years and hart was a new coach,they knowing fully well that the federation was strapped for cash yet they threatened to boycot the games if they weren’t paid back wages? timkee had to scramble to get the government to help pay to avert a crisis.

then when DJW took over they boycotted again......I think it was just before the Guatemala game, the last game to berth a spot in the hex lead by jan Micheal Williams , DJW had to find money to pay them. these players are not angels and I saw that with hart how they deliberately let him down lead by molino, IMO.

[asylumseeker]

Well I can say for sure, Hyland and Cyrus on the team!
The head coach and Stern will be there too! I saw them all at Miami airport on Tuesday.
I saw a few others too but didn't recognize them...hope this helps, at least we know for sure two who are on the team

Did you tell Cyrus "he's not friggin Lucio"?

...asylum, you quoting me there right?

Anyway, I understand men frustration with Cyrus, I gave up on him years now! And that ball he gave away against Mexico in the center circle the other day, I have never seen anything like that in international football!

When we get a new coach, Cyrus will be thanked for his years of service, plain and simple.

Of course! That was some funny shizzle.