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Author Topic: Schoolgirl, 14, hacked to death  (Read 12300 times)

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Offline kicker

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Re: Schoolgirl, 14, hacked to death
« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2009, 01:03:03 PM »
Yeah "my wife" or "my girlfriend" has a improper literal socio-translation in many societies and it causes people to react irrationally to circumstances.

What is possessed in a "my girlfriend" situation is the girlfriend relationship, not the girl  :-\  ... As you say- many people who perpetrate acts like the one described in this thread just get it all wrong- and sadly it's often passed down from generation to generation. 

I think women changing their surnames to that of their husbands is symbolic of it and in it's own way contributes to the phenomenon. 



Doh even get started on that one nah... then we'll really have to discuss the property dynamics that gave rise to that.


Without getting you started  ;D lol- I'm curous to hear your take more for my own edification because I'm unfamiliar with the origins.  I could render an educated guess (which might be a good guess)...but it wouldn't have much basis beyond my own common sense and piecing a puzzle together.

So splurge away  :beermug:  (genuinely interested)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 01:05:21 PM by kicker »
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Schoolgirl, 14, hacked to death
« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2009, 01:20:49 PM »
Yeah "my wife" or "my girlfriend" has a improper literal socio-translation in many societies and it causes people to react irrationally to circumstances.

What is possessed in a "my girlfriend" situation is the girlfriend relationship, not the girl  :-\  ... As you say- many people who perpetrate acts like the one described in this thread just get it all wrong- and sadly it's often passed down from generation to generation. 

I think women changing their surnames to that of their husbands is symbolic of it and in it's own way contributes to the phenomenon. 



Doh even get started on that one nah... then we'll really have to discuss the property dynamics that gave rise to that.


Without getting you started  ;D lol- I'm curous to hear your take more for my own edification because I'm unfamiliar with the origins.  I could render an educated guess (which might be a good guess)...but it wouldn't have much basis beyond my own common sense and piecing a puzzle together.

So splurge away  :beermug:  (genuinely interested)

Well it basically has it's roots in notions of property.  A dowry of some sort was paid to the bride's family in exchange for the woman.  The woman was valuable for her domestic prowess, as well as for her ability to reproduce.  Not saying fathers didn't love their daughters, but in the end she was a commodity to be traded.  The ability to bear the man an heir was valuable (hence why Henry VIII kept trying and trying... of course it couldn'a been him who was shooting blanks, lol), because it meant ''free' help to farm, hunt...govern/rule etc.  Someone to carry on the man's lineage.  The man's lineage was more important, that's why the woman gave up her name and took on his instead.  This is also why marriages were used to cement bonds between clans... even if the marriage was between first cousins.  Better to marry 'within' the extended clan, than to dilute the power/influence of the family by marrying outside.

All of this is tied to inheritance (or passing property).  The man needed a son, and most importantly,  needed his first born to be a boy.  Look up the law of primogeniture and you'll see what I mean.  When a woman married, her possessions became her husband's.  So if you bequeathed your estate to your daughter you might as well be giving it away to a stranger, because it was guaranteed to leave the possession of your family and pass to her future husband.  Even if the first born was a girl, she was usually disinherited in favor of the first born boy for the same reason.

I could go on and on and describe how this played out in the caribbean, particularly among East Indian families... but I sense the thread done get pull in too many different directions, lol.

Offline kicker

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Re: Schoolgirl, 14, hacked to death
« Reply #92 on: March 20, 2009, 01:35:21 PM »


Well it basically has it's roots in notions of property.  A dowry of some sort was paid to the bride's family in exchange for the woman.  The woman was valuable for her domestic prowess, as well as for her ability to reproduce.  Not saying fathers didn't love their daughters, but in the end she was a commodity to be traded.  The ability to bear the man an heir was valuable (hence why Henry VIII kept trying and trying... of course it couldn'a been him who was shooting blanks, lol), because it meant ''free' help to farm, hunt...govern/rule etc.  Someone to carry on the man's lineage.  The man's lineage was more important, that's why the woman gave up her name and took on his instead.  This is also why marriages were used to cement bonds between clans... even if the marriage was between first cousins.  Better to marry 'within' the extended clan, than to dilute the power/influence of the family by marrying outside.

All of this is tied to inheritance (or passing property).  The man needed a son, and most importantly,  needed his first born to be a boy.  Look up the law of primogeniture and you'll see what I mean.  When a woman married, her possessions became her husband's.  So if you bequeathed your estate to your daughter you might as well be giving it away to a stranger, because it was guaranteed to leave the possession of your family and pass to her future husband.  Even if the first born was a girl, she was usually disinherited in favor of the first born boy for the same reason.

I could go on and on and describe how this played out in the caribbean, particularly among East Indian families... but I sense the thread done get pull in too many different directions, lol.

Figured it was something along those lines...thanks...

Didn't realize that my premonition about it contributing to the sense of male-female ownership was actually that directly related/rooted to the issue at hand...thought it was more a byproduct whose effect was achieved more through tradition than anything else....

But ah feel the real reason yuh didn't go on and on is because yuh in class right now lol
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: Schoolgirl, 14, hacked to death
« Reply #93 on: March 20, 2009, 01:39:36 PM »
I could go on and on and describe how this played out in the caribbean, particularly among East Indian families... but I sense the thread done get pull in too many different directions, lol.
not only  indian families
ah friend of mine, his father owned a company and brought the son-in-law into the business...next thing the son-in-law divorce his daughter and take his share of the business and the daughter OUT on she own oui
I had to ask my friend, why did his dad not bring his own daughter in as a director instead of the son-in-law.....weird
this is not the exact same thing but shows how people value DAUGHTERS
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 01:42:34 PM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

Offline Bakes

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Re: Schoolgirl, 14, hacked to death
« Reply #94 on: March 20, 2009, 01:45:49 PM »


But ah feel the real reason yuh didn't go on and on is because yuh in class right now lol

Nah... but fuh de last two hours ah trying tuh leave tuh go to de library  ;D

Offline Bakes

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Re: Schoolgirl, 14, hacked to death
« Reply #95 on: March 20, 2009, 01:47:30 PM »
I could go on and on and describe how this played out in the caribbean, particularly among East Indian families... but I sense the thread done get pull in too many different directions, lol.
not only  indian families
ah friend of mine, his father owned a company and brought the son-in-law into the business...next thing the son-in-law divorce his daughter and take his share of the business and the daughter OUT on she own oui
I had to ask my friend, why did his dad not bring his own daughter in as a director instead of the son-in-law.....weird
this is not the exact same thing but shows how people value DAUGHTERS

Yeah, certainly not limited to Indian families... but I was really referencing how daughters were often seen as a liability in Indian families... if yuh could bleed then yuh could breed.  Once yuh reach dat age is time tuh marri'd you off before yuh bring in one more mouth to feed. 

(Again... true of non-Indian families too to an extent)

Offline WestCoast

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Re: Schoolgirl, 14, hacked to death
« Reply #96 on: March 20, 2009, 01:50:44 PM »
I could go on and on and describe how this played out in the caribbean, particularly among East Indian families... but I sense the thread done get pull in too many different directions, lol.
not only  indian families
ah friend of mine, his father owned a company and brought the son-in-law into the business...next thing the son-in-law divorce his daughter and take his share of the business and the daughter OUT on she own oui
I had to ask my friend, why did his dad not bring his own daughter in as a director instead of the son-in-law.....weird
this is not the exact same thing but shows how people value DAUGHTERS

Yeah, certainly not limited to Indian families... but I was really referencing how daughters were often seen as a liability in Indian families... if yuh could bleed then yuh could breed.  Once yuh reach dat age is time tuh marri'd you off before yuh bring in one more mouth to feed. 

(Again... true of non-Indian families too to an extent)
din the blue bloods an dem do that also to extend/fortify their allegiances?
check out this callaloo that is the british royal family now
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/royalbio3.html
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 01:53:40 PM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

 

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