Limited State of Emergency....

[Football supporter]

9/11 was extreme, an act of terrorism and therefore a SOE was justifyable.

No state of emergency was even declared after 9/11... just to put things in perspective. 

Thing is, War, it effects everyone not just the crims. Last Weds I had to drive to Mount Hope just after midnight as I had extreme pain from a gum infection. If that happened tonight, what would I do? These police have itchy trigger fingers at the best of times. I understand we have to make sacrifices, but we also need to live in a free society. The many good people living in these "hotspots" no doubt want to have their fear removed, but do they also want to be imprisoned, so all they do is work and come home? And what about the effects on the bars, restaurants and clubs and tourism in Tobago? Imagime how afraid these tourists in Tobago will be. They sure ain't coming back. And govts aall over the world advising people not to travel to T&T. It may only last  15 days, but that impression of T&T will stick in the minds of some for years. So much for boosting tourism.

Funny... I remember you being on the other side of this debate in that Jack Warner thread.  Not at all trying to score cheap points, just underscoring my position that the rule of law is always bigger than any temporary situation, and most situations are "temporary."  It is always tempting to reach for extreme measures and to lose sight of perspective, as this situation presents. 

LOL, no points scoring today mate!  But actually, I'm not sure what you were referring to....unless it was the stop and search matter, but wasn't that in the London riots thread?
Whatever. I am for the police and Army clamping down, in fact I would welcome it, but I think an SOE is excessive.

I would like to see checkpoints and roadblocks in practice like they used in Northern Ireland. At the least it would cut down on drink driving (which I'm ashamed to say I have only done since living here).  

As a side effect of the SOE, I imagine that some of the poorest paid people, such as waiters, bar tenders, fast food workers, late night shop staff etc, will have their hours cut, and thus will be receiving less income. Also, the doubles vendors, taxi drivers etc. How does this help?

[Football supporter]

"No state of emergency was even declared after 9/11... just to put things in perspective."

Seriously Bakes? Well that puts this further into perspective then!

I honestly don't think a national state of emergency has been declared in the US since German U-boats were encamped in NY harbor during WWII.

State of Emergency was declared in Louisiana 6 years ago when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans... maybe one was declared in the spring when tornadoes hit Alabama... maybe.  The reasons in both those cases was to empower the National Guard (essentially a standing army in each state) in each state to use their police powers and help with cleanup.  State of Emergency is nothing to be trifled with.

Exactly my point. This is a big thing...and a mistake in my opinion.

[Blue]

Trinidad is in an effin mess. To any Trinis who feel otherwise, I am genuinely sorry that you have become used to that level of violence. I bet everyone on this site could identify at least one person they know affected by a serious crime within the last 3 months alone. That cannot be right.

I know every time I pull into my driveway in TnT the security precautions I have to take are ridiculous. I would never even dare walking home or around the neighbourhood. And with good reason, three of my neighbours have been raided at gunpoint in the last 6 weeks...and that's the kind of crime that doesn't even get reported anymore, cuz for Trinidad dat is normel.

I am glad to see my neighbourhood on that list. I hope (or assume) this is a temporary measure while they come up with a better plan, but for now it is better than the nothing we had last week.

[Bakes]

LOL, no points scoring today mate!  But actually, I'm not sure what you were referring to....unless it was the stop and search matter, but wasn't that in the London riots thread?
Whatever. I am for the police and Army clamping down, in fact I would welcome it, but I think an SOE is excessive.

I would like to see checkpoints and roadblocks in practice like they used in Northern Ireland. At the least it would cut down on drink driving (which I'm ashamed to say I have only done since living here).  

As a side effect of the SOE, I imagine that some of the poorest paid people, such as waiters, bar tenders, fast food workers, late night shop staff etc, will have their hours cut, and thus will be receiving less income. Also, the doubles vendors, taxi drivers etc. How does this help?

Nah, was in the Bin Hamman/Jack Warner thread when we were discussing searching Warner's bank accounts without a warrant, or police stopping a man on the street and finding $10,000 dollars on him.  Your position was that the police should have the right to search his bank accounts without more.

[Football supporter]

LOL, no points scoring today mate!  But actually, I'm not sure what you were referring to....unless it was the stop and search matter, but wasn't that in the London riots thread?
Whatever. I am for the police and Army clamping down, in fact I would welcome it, but I think an SOE is excessive.

I would like to see checkpoints and roadblocks in practice like they used in Northern Ireland. At the least it would cut down on drink driving (which I'm ashamed to say I have only done since living here).  

As a side effect of the SOE, I imagine that some of the poorest paid people, such as waiters, bar tenders, fast food workers, late night shop staff etc, will have their hours cut, and thus will be receiving less income. Also, the doubles vendors, taxi drivers etc. How does this help?

Nah, was in the Bin Hamman/Jack Warner thread when we were discussing searching Warner's bank accounts without a warrant, or police stopping a man on the street and finding $10,000 dollars on him.  Your position was that the police should have the right to search his bank accounts without more.

Oh yeah, remember that one. Anyhoo, back to the SOE!!

[kicker]

Trinidad is in an effin mess. To any Trinis who feel otherwise, I am genuinely sorry that you have become used to that level of violence. I bet everyone on this site could identify at least one person they know affected by a serious crime within the last 3 months alone. That cannot be right.

I know every time I pull into my driveway in TnT the security precautions I have to take are ridiculous. I would never even dare walking home or around the neighbourhood. And with good reason, three of my neighbours have been raided at gunpoint in the last 6 weeks...and that's the kind of crime that doesn't even get reported anymore, cuz for Trinidad dat is normel.

I am glad to see my neighbourhood on that list. I hope (or assume) this is a temporary measure while they come up with a better plan, but for now it is better than the nothing we had last week.

I don't think that anyone will dispute what you're saying - the question is whether or not a state of emergency will have a positive effect on it...

I can't affirmatively say yes to that because I don't know what the tactical approach will be once everything is shut down... I think there is a lot of skepticism that this State of Emergency will acheive nothing and potentially even have purpose defeating effects...I can relate to that skepticism regardless of what I think of T&T broken society.

[Deeks]

Just like the previous admin., they don't have clue how to resolve the violence. So they trying the limited SOE. Will it work? I honestly hope it work. Because only my people killing one another. I know the legal minds on the forum will have exceptions to my opinion. But 11 murders in a 48 hr period and shows no signs of stopping is not accepted, by me at least. At this point the end justify the means. This SOE will also keep the union at bay for the time being.So that is another "ketch" to this episode. Patrick did not want to go that route because the opposition would call him a dictator like Burnham or Mugabe. So I guess Kamla is ah "dictator". The only thing is, we have no woman dictator to compare her with.

[truetrini]

You cannot shut down BBM, the telecoms can shut down their data networks but you cannot isolate one application.

Only RIM can shut down BBM.

BBM mean Bring Back Manning.

[Preacher]

As long as this SOE ends with some snakes getting their heads cut of, I good.  It's a waste of time if they only cutting of tails.  Tails grow back.  I lost 2 brother to this craziness.  One get ketch in England bringing in 5 Kg of cocaine.  Bam a year a kilo.  Life done.  Another one get tie up in some appliance robbery Bam he dead, mame in the house alone.  I know a lot of people like to surmise on stuff, but the truth is the general public has been on a violence imposed SOE for a while now.  At this point, any change will do, no need to wait for more innocent blood in the drain.


Ey TC..How u doing brother?

[truetrini]

As long as this SOE ends with some snakes getting their heads cut of, I good.  It's a waste of time if they only cutting of tails.  Tails grow back.  I lost 2 brother to this craziness.  One get ketch in England bringing in 5 Kg of cocaine.  Bam a year a kilo.  Life done.  Another one get tie up in some appliance robbery Bam he dead, mame in the house alone.  I know a lot of people like to surmise on stuff, but the truth is the general public has been on a violence imposed SOE for a while now.  At this point, any change will do, no need to wait for more innocent blood in the drain.


Ey TC..How u doing brother?

I dey I dodging police up here in Laventille!

[Preacher]

As long as this SOE ends with some snakes getting their heads cut of, I good.  It's a waste of time if they only cutting of tails.  Tails grow back.  I lost 2 brother to this craziness.  One get ketch in England bringing in 5 Kg of cocaine.  Bam a year a kilo.  Life done.  Another one get tie up in some appliance robbery Bam he dead, mame in the house alone.  I know a lot of people like to surmise on stuff, but the truth is the general public has been on a violence imposed SOE for a while now.  At this point, any change will do, no need to wait for more innocent blood in the drain.


Ey TC..How u doing brother?

    See all that bring back PNM they coming for you.   

I dey I dodging police up here in Laventille!

[Brownsugar]

For all the dolly house Kamla playing with the country I really hope she and she crew spot on in this case.  This eh no joking matter. 

Like Jah posted earlier and a few other commentators I've read during the day stated, this must be because of something dem know that we eh know....and it have to be bad....

Also, like Preacher if somebody(ies) big in the drug game eh goh down in this SOE period, this would have been a waste of time.....

[D.H.W]

well they could search anybody and any place they want. They better find / hold some big fish

[Bakes]

Just as I suspected... they could stop anybody and search them and they could enter people property (by force if necessary) and search it.   Yuh can't have any public meeting or marches (except school or prayers) without Gibbs' permission... and he and he alone have say-so.  So much fuh police and dem protesting.

They could also arrest whoever they want... and lock them up.  They could keep them locked up for more than 24 hours only if a magistrate say so... but more importantly, they could avoid going to a magistrate altogether by getting somebody from ASP or above to sign off on the detention.

http://www.news.gov.tt/E-Gazette/Gazette%202011/Legal%20Notice/Legal%20Notice%20No.%20163%20of%202011.pdf

[weary1969]

well they could search anybody and any place they want. They better find / hold some big fish

Eh holding meh breath

Brown I hope u correck and I will c what meh peeps in d know sayin.

[truetrini]

dem is real jokers...I would not have been in opposition to a full state of emergency...steups limited my ass...so de bandits and dem cyar drive to another location?  steups....and what is de real plan?

I feel is to terrorize PNM supporters...lol

[Football supporter]

Just as I suspected... they could stop anybody and search them and they could enter people property (by force if necessary) and search it.   Yuh can't have any public meeting or marches (except school or prayers) without Gibbs' permission... and he and he alone have say-so.  So much fuh police and dem protesting.

They could also arrest whoever they want... and lock them up.  They could keep them locked up for more than 24 hours only if a magistrate say so... but more importantly, they could avoid going to a magistrate altogether by getting somebody from ASP or above to sign off on the detention.

http://www.news.gov.tt/E-Gazette/Gazette%202011/Legal%20Notice/Legal%20Notice%20No.%20163%20of%202011.pdf

The A.G. just say on CNC3 that the anti gang legislation means they can detain without charge for 3 days and then apply to magistrate for extention STILL WITHOUT CHARGES.

[Socafan]

Just as I suspected... they could stop anybody and search them and they could enter people property (by force if necessary) and search it.   Yuh can't have any public meeting or marches (except school or prayers) without Gibbs' permission... and he and he alone have say-so.  So much fuh police and dem protesting.

They could also arrest whoever they want... and lock them up.  They could keep them locked up for more than 24 hours only if a magistrate say so... but more importantly, they could avoid going to a magistrate altogether by getting somebody from ASP or above to sign off on the detention.

http://www.news.gov.tt/E-Gazette/Gazette%202011/Legal%20Notice/Legal%20Notice%20No.%20163%20of%202011.pdf

ding, ding, ding!!!  She/they playing with fire though. That little place produce too much insurrectionists in its short history. Maybe she unaware?

[truetrini]

And why de state of emergency in dem areas where they removed police posts?

[D.H.W]

Tonight will be interesting ! , The place dead quiet outside , you could hear a pin drop.

[dinho]

Plenty criticism and griping and 5 pages later, not one alternative solution proposed..

If someone here has a better suggestion I'm all ears, cmon let's hear it.....

[Socafan]

Tonight will be interesting ! , The place dead quiet outside , you could hear a pin drop.

Run outside and buss some carbide.

Put it on youtube.

[Bakes]

Plenty criticism and griping and 5 pages later, not one alternative solution proposed..

If someone here has a better suggestion I'm all ears, cmon let's hear it.....

Not you self was bitching about "grossest violation of civil rights" when Kamla was gallavanting in Parliament about the alleged eavesdropping??  Well that was proposed as an anti-crime measure, right?  Where was your alternative solution then??

This is the most severe threat to civil liberties since the coup, and circumstances not a fraction as dire.  You self in that "Will you return to Trinidad to live" was talking about how good things is and man exaggerating the situation.  Now you in here talking about how bad it is and state of emergency justified? 

yuh want alternative plan?  That is what yuh elected leaders are being paid taxpayer dollars for.  Where is the government plan for crime?  Is on a f**king messageboard yuh want to come challenging people for plan?

steups

[Controversial]

Just as I suspected... they could stop anybody and search them and they could enter people property (by force if necessary) and search it.   Yuh can't have any public meeting or marches (except school or prayers) without Gibbs' permission... and he and he alone have say-so.  So much fuh police and dem protesting.

They could also arrest whoever they want... and lock them up.  They could keep them locked up for more than 24 hours only if a magistrate say so... but more importantly, they could avoid going to a magistrate altogether by getting somebody from ASP or above to sign off on the detention.

http://www.news.gov.tt/E-Gazette/Gazette%202011/Legal%20Notice/Legal%20Notice%20No.%20163%20of%202011.pdf

The A.G. just say on CNC3 that the anti gang legislation means they can detain without charge for 3 days and then apply to magistrate for extention STILL WITHOUT CHARGES.

they already did a movie on what about to happen in TT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendition_(film)

 

[STEUPS!!]

if i wake up in the morning and i hear that another murder occured overnight in one of the hotpsot areas that lockdown, is best they just end dis SOE and throw dey frame

and anyhow, criminals dont be killing each other in the dead of night again. is in broad daylight boldface dem criminals be pumping.

and dinho, most ppl bitching, but can u blame them? ppl losing revenue, internationally, the country looking bad, ppl basic rights affected.  i for one not too pleased cuz i affected but i hushing my mouth and giving it a chance


my whole issue is why only certain areas gettin locked down when crime is all over T&T.

[truetrini]

Bakes, this is grossest hypocrisy!

They came to power promising an action plan to end the crime in 120 days and so far is State of Emergency in we ass.

Nice eh?  

[Socafan]

Plenty criticism and griping and 5 pages later, not one alternative solution proposed..

If someone here has a better suggestion I'm all ears, cmon let's hear it.....

Breds, the last time I was in Trini, bout a year ago, I drive from Arima to POS and eh see one pissing police. Then in town those I see only driving around with their lights flashing while people only driving past, around, infront, sideways all around them like maniacs.

Ah police tell me up Maracas that a noparking sign mean no parking right where the sign is. I could park along the road in between that sign and the next one 40ft away.

People telling me to this day when they call the police station, police still telling them they eh have no car, if yuh could come pick them up. In 1977 a Western Division police officer tell my mother that, the night she wake up and some clown was rummaging through a kitchen drawer in Diamond Vale. He already had the back door open and just run out and disappear. They show up out of the blue 2 days later in a jeep with all kinda big ass machine gun. Even me as a youth buss a laugh at that.

Kamla say they spending plenty money on police, but mustbe on topbrass salaries. Of course they need to train the police better, but, what they really need is more police on the road, everywhere. Yuh eh supposed to be able to go anywhere for more than 10 minutes without seeing a police car. Sustained police presence..all the damn time, not no limited state of emergency crap. Thats limited crime fighting.

[Football supporter]

if i wake up in the morning and i hear that another murder occured overnight in one of the hotpsot areas that lockdown, is best they just end dis SOE and throw dey frame

and anyhow, criminals dont be killing each other in the dead of night again. is in broad daylight boldface dem criminals be pumping.

and dinho, most ppl bitching, but can u blame them? ppl losing revenue, internationally, the country looking bad, ppl basic rights affected.  i for one not too pleased cuz i affected but i hushing my mouth and giving it a chance


my whole issue is why only certain areas gettin locked down when crime is all over T&T.

Just a thought hoss, but how you know this isn't part of the plan? Peeps from Curepe out on the streets feeling safe, then POW, police arrest them. The powers extend across the country, as much as I can gather. If you have total lockdown, there'll be no one to arrest! So maybe the plan is to let the crims move around in "safe" areas. John Sandy said the procedure for approaching a road block is this: "Slow down, turn on your interior light, dim your head lights, lower front window, have your ID ready."

[Bakes]

Bakes, this is grossest hypocrisy!

They came to power promising an action plan to end the crime in 120 days and so far is State of Emergency in we ass.

Nice eh?  

State ah emergency eh no plan... daiz ah reaction.  Maybe that is why they send people like dinho here, tuh see if one ah we have ah plan 

[weary1969]

if i wake up in the morning and i hear that another murder occured overnight in one of the hotpsot areas that lockdown, is best they just end dis SOE and throw dey frame

and anyhow, criminals dont be killing each other in the dead of night again. is in broad daylight boldface dem criminals be pumping.

and dinho, most ppl bitching, but can u blame them? ppl losing revenue, internationally, the country looking bad, ppl basic rights affected.  i for one not too pleased cuz i affected but i hushing my mouth and giving it a chance


my whole issue is why only certain areas gettin locked down when crime is all over T&T.

Just hope dat nobody eh dead in d non hot spot because then they go say it is migration.